Bad Situation in the Gulf.

[jonesg]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

Its self correcting, imbeciles kill themselves.

 

[Campylobacter]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

Not a fan of new laws.

I'm basically a chicken (I get nervous if I can't see land on BOTH sides of the boat). The vast majority of my boating is done on sheltered inland waters, rarely more than half an hour from the boat ramp. I've taken a boating safety course, read Chapman, carry the required safety equipment, and have a VHF. I watch the weather like a hawk.

I do NOT want the government to tell me how to be a safe boater.

 

[phwrd]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

I really like the idea of boating / water safety taught in schools here in Florida. Use Boat Registration revenue pay for Mandatory Boat Safety Education.

Or Let the Coast Guard, Military - (recruiting) pay the cost. Hell, they can sponser a NHRA race team, they can find the funds to pay for and & help teach classes.

How about a mandatory class at no cost ?

I wasn't making judgement on the unfortunate folks, it's just that if there was someone aboard who may have had a little bit book learning, their decisions may have been More informed decisions.

 

[ShaneCarroll]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

Let me start off by saying it is very tragic, what happened to these men. However, it could have easily been prevented. I launched my 18' boat in Tampa Bay at about noon that Saturday, and it was so rough I stayed in the river. They had no business out there, the water was rough all day, it just got progressively worse.

As far as the new laws and such, in high school, everyone is required to take Driver's Ed, as well as pass a test to obtain a license down here. I believe the new law states you must have a learner's permit for one year before you actually get a license. I cannot remember the last morning that I did not see a story on the news about a fatal overnight crash.

Point is, the classes simply do not work. People decide to show off, or just flat out ignore the laws. I do not want to get fined because I don't have an EPIRB on my boat, I venture out into the bay, not the gulf, and I am always close to land. It may be dumb on my part, however, I feel I do not need it. Some people just lack common sense.

If a class was mandatory, people would not learn much in what, one to four hours? They would go out there and do the same thing. I would also suggest bringing two boats when you venture out that far. Nobody has any business going out that far in one boat.

These men could have easily prevented this tragedy, but lacked the common sense.

On another note, was there not room on the keel of a 21' boat for four grown men to wait for rescue, sounds kind of fishy. .

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

I will be on the other side of the street picketting to keep laws like this off the books. Knee-jerk reactions like this are why cars cost so bloody much, nobody but a licensed contractor can build a dog house and soon, why boating will be so expensive nobody but the wealthy will afford it.

I once slipped and fell in my boat.. skinning my knee. These things should have airbags! A boat once sunk after a back yard boat owner rebuilt it.. you should be licensed to work on your own boat! Go ahead, push for your new laws. 20 years from now you'll be that person complaining how the cost of boating used to be so reasonable, wondering what drove prices up so much. Worse, you'll be the person who caused it.

The only reason those idiots got any press is because they are/were pro football players. Frankly, they should have all died, bunch of morons ignoring a storm advisory. Veering off course a bit, maybe we should make it mandetory all NFL players should drown off the coast, that way I won't be required, through taxes, to fund the next stadium in my town, even though I'll never step foot in it and don't even want it here.

Mandatory boat courses and licencing to try to inject at least a basic level of competency? There are many arguments that could be advanced in its favor. Certainly it is no more invasive than automotive driver regulation.

As for the rest of the post, that is not really worthy of comment, especially in this particular forum.
Classless, harsh, and unnecessary.

 

[pine island fred]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

Have to agree with IOWKEE and MPHY98, we sure have enough regulations and requirements without heaping more manditory rules on us to protect ourselves. When I am on my boat, I feel it is the last place available to me to get away from controls and rules. Leave me alone and I will leave you alone. Remember someone side that freedom is the right to make the wrong decision.
I happen to be out that day with the wife in a 16 ft. Common sense said head back to port which we did. I never graduated high school and have enough sense to tell when things look bad, called street smart. It is only a matter of time when we will all be required to have a license, wear a life vest, have a locator beacon, maby wear one of those dorky bicycle helments, file a trip plan, get a safety sticker from the CG aux. Until that time comes, please do whatever you feel is necessary to insure your safety but please leave me alone. regards FRED

 

[lowkee]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

Classless, harsh, and unnecessary.

Lowkee that was harsh. Bashing these guys, man whew.

If you were the one to cause millions of dollars to be spend on a single rescue effort because you were an idiot, when people on this forum went back into shore that very same day because of the weather, I would be just as harsh with you.

As to the matter of required equipment, my take on it is that the best way for us not to have laws put in place, is not to do stupid things.

I couldn't have put it better. People doing stupid things and the people unable to place blame correctly are reason #1 why we have the laws we do. Some people here have said "It isn't any worse than a driver's license"... and why do you think we are required to have a driver's license? Because over the years, plenty of stupid people have done stupid things which we get to pay for. Heck, I can drive 10 miles here in Charlotte, NC and point out at least 20 drivers which within those 10 miles have broken some fairly obvious driving law. Does the license make them smarter or safer to be around?

Instead of punishing those to obey the laws, try placing blame and being 'harsh' to those who cause them.

Those football players being stupid and dying will, at some point, directly reduce my, and your, freedoms and make doing what you enjoy more expensive and cumbersome. Poor them? Poor us for having to suffer from their poor choices.

I say it is classless and unnecessary to stick up for these (now dead) people.

 

[rdny041285]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

I also semi agree with lowkee...some of the words used i believe were harsh and could have been spared in the post but that is his opinion. I believe i read a post that they were anchored when they flipped. Doesnt a half knowledged boater know that anchoring in waves that big is just asking for trouble? Either way though that should have been avoided by seeing 2-4 to start the day in a 21' boat. I also agree that many people lose their lives at sea but only millionaires (or in their case a few players who have not actually reched star status in the NFL) are the ones who get this much attention. even in the articles it says 2 NFL'ers and another guy are still lost at sea...

 

[BWR1953]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

I agree with lowkee.

As for harsh... those guys all learned the harshest lesson of all, sad though it may be for their families.

-BWR

 

[BoatingCop]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

I agree with the person who stated that this incident was kinda fishy. I think something else went on, on that boat, that we don't know about yet. We'll wait until investigators start questioning the sole survivor and see what comes up. Sad, yes. But ignorance played a big part in this incident.

Eric

 

[rdny041285]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

yeah something happened. when he first was talking, he said they all took a life jacket but then after a day or 2, he said the 2 foot ball players left their life jackets and drifted away.....who would just leave their life jcakets and drift away in waves up to 15 feet?

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

yeah something happened. when he first was talking, he said they all took a life jacket but then after a day or 2, he said the 2 foot ball players left their life jackets and drifted away.....who would just leave their life jcakets and drift away in waves up to 15 feet?

This circumstance seems out of place to you, because you are thinking with a rational mind. As hypothermia progresses, rational thought becomes more and more absent. The body begins to shut down in an attempt to protect core functions and eventually even those fail. Simply put, people really do things like this.

I think I feel the most sorry for the families for the obvious reasons, but also because they knew these young men as people who were just not quitters. For them, the idea of Cooper and Smith just giving up is unimaginable. Once again, however, they must understand that hypothermia robs victims of strength, physical coordination and rational thought.

You also have to consider that Schuyler's descriptions would have been hampered by his own hypothermia. When found, his body temperature was under 90 degrees. That is well beyond the point were mental acuity begins to fade. He may not have had a correct perception of time or of actual circumstance.

 

[rdny041285]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

well what i am referring to has nothing to do with hypothermia. Schuyler had mentioned they all had their life jackets on them days after he was rescued. and then i think the next day he said that they didnt....im not talking about what they did in the water but what the survivor said.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

My take on this:

Stupidity has always been a capital crime. If your caveman ancestors had been stupid and went up to pet the nice cave kitty with the 6 inch fangs, you wouldn't be here.

If your soldier Dad had been stupid and stuck his head up where the enemy could get a shot at him, he'd be dead.

If your Mom had been stupid and driven out to see her favorite boyfriend in the middle of the night in a big snowstorm, odds are pretty good she would be dead in a ditch somewhere.

These pro athletes were stupid, and paid the price. As someone said, they wouldn't have made the news if they weren't pro athletes. I agree, and think the way the news outlets manufacture stories they think people are interested in is disgusting. How many ordinary people died due to no fault of their own the same day?

I am sorry for these fellows' families, but the bottom line is that they did something stupid, and the world did its usual response.

If you can find a way to make everyone in the world not be stupid, I'm all for it, but all more laws do is make the people who follow them pay more for the stupid ones who don't. I personally love the freedom we have to work on and play with boats, and the less laws limiting us for no good reason the better.

Erik

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

It may be harsh, but it is nature's way of culling the herd. Nature doesn't care about being called harsh or unforgiving, she just does her job. Unfortunately, some of them probably got to reproduce before being culled.

Personally, working for a US government agency I can not see where additional laws will help. I do remember one law being passed (somewhere, years ago--fuzzy memory) requiring seat belts on motorcycles. After the proposer of that law was strapped onto a motorcycle and the bike tipped over, the law was repealed. The government operates on equal opportunity etc. and all these regs. make for the less desirable workers being attracted--it sometimes embarasses me to be one of them.

 

[Dick Sorensen]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

This tragic event has been the topic of conversation amongst user boaters in Central Ohio for the last few days. I know that the immediate response is that we need to be protected from 'ourselves' but isn't that the easy answer. Just pass a law and everything will be alright. My attitude when I shove off is that I'm on my own...as a matter of fact I take great pride in saying that I've never come home on a boat I didn't leave on! It is every boaters responsibility to be prepared to handle anything that happens...whether weather related, mechanical, medical, etc. Please don't pass any more laws.... protect me from the people that are trying to protect me. But how about getting everyone to realize that they are responsible for their own actions and decisions. I bet that the boat was outfitted with Type II life jackets...when they should have off-shore Type 1's. And these guys where all big men....as to why only one guy made it perhaps we'll never know but have you tried to hang onto to a smooth fibreglass hull in 10 foot waves...the only handhold that I can envision is the outdrive....why the guys didn't tie themselves together is another question. It really is tragic.

 

[Dick Sorensen]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

This tragic accident has been the topic of many conversations in the central Ohio boating community this week. The general feeling was expressed "what where these guys doing in a 21 foot open boat 38 miles offshore -- anchored!" We all felt that if it was us they'd have found our cold bodies frozen to the throttle in the full forward position and the other guys hanging over the side paddling! Yet, this points to the key fact that being on the water is dangerous (perhaps that's why we are drawn to it?)... only one person has ever been reported to walk on water. The Owner/Operator of this boat blew it and paid the ultimate price. Please don't pass anymore laws. Our attitude should be that we are responsible for ourselves...we must be prepared for whatever we encounter...mechanical, weather, medical, provisions...I'll bet this boat was outfitted with Type II jackets when Type I's are the only thing that would keep anyone abovewater more than 48 hours. As to only one guy hanging on....remember the water temp is probably 50 or so degrees (that's cold) and fibreglass is smooth and 10 foot plus or minus waves...and hours after hours...the only handhold was the outdrive. Now why these guys didn't tie themselves together. Remember the guys off of the USS Indianapolis and how long they where in the water and alot of them survived. What a tragic situation.

 

[aspeck]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

lowkee might have used words that were a little harsher than I would use in a situation like this, but the sentiment is the same. I fell so bad for the families of these men (not NFL'ers, but men). They were people with families, hopes, dreams, and plans. But, because of a apparently poor decisions (I say that because we only know what it looks like, not what really happened at this point) there are grieving mothers, fathers, wives, girlfriends, kids, etc.

The knee jerk reaction is to legislate so this doesn't happen again. The prudent thing is to use it as a lesson so it never happens to you or your loved ones.

 

[triumphrick]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

I might be a little stupid too. But I have a healthy fear for the water. Last September the wife and I were bound and determined to hit the 60' reef west of our ramp. I had fine tuned the motor, double checked everything. Made sure all below deck water line fittings were clamped. Checked both bilge pumps. Made sure all three batteries were fully charged. While underway we got on the vhf and continued to make radio contact with BoatsUS, our tow service, all the way out. As I was able to maintain radio contact we felt relatively comfortable. We traveled 34 miles out to hit that reef. Three octopus, four large grouper and a mess of mangrove snappers later we headed in. The seas were quiet, no more than 1-2 easy with no to little wind.
I have been back to that reef several times since then. I did turn back once when the winds shifted from the south and waves were becoming 3-5 before we hit protected water.
I was one of the guys that posted on another thread about launching from the same ramp those guys did a week ago Saturday. We were sea trialing a boat that my neighbor did buy. I am going with him in the morning to tow it home.
We did not even get out of the intercoastal into the pass when we started taking spray over the bow and windward gunnel on a 20' Pro Line DC. We immediately turned back in to the inshore waterway and finished our trial. I could not imagine a boat 1 ft. larger being out there in those seas.
Lots of mistakes were made that day. I am grateful that we did not make one.

 

[triumphrick]

Re: Bad Situation in the Gulf.

By the way..just stumbled across these on another forum. Check out the price! No, they don't float but can be submerged and still work. Definitely something to look into....

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/fastfind.html