Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

bruceb58

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

I'm gonna pull the alternator & take it in...
I'm guessing bad diodes?.....
I don't think your alternator is the issue here. I would follows Frank's troubleshooting steps above. It's a good "divide and conquer" trouble shooting step.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

Try remove all the wires on the pos side of the coil, reconnect the resistor wire only. The other wire (now disconnected) from the pos side of the coil should only read 12v while cranking, with the engine running or ignition only there should be no + voltage on this wire!!
Do the same on the neg side of the coil and only reconnect the wire comming from the breaker points, now measure again...also with engine running.
Good luck!
I ran a jumper with a resistance wire I got from another 888 harness directly from "I' on the key switch.....
I get 5.34 with the key on, 9.29 when started & 10.6 rising to 11.6 when revved, then it will stay in that area....
I disconnected he "I" wire at the solenoid terminal....
It does the same with the resistor wire in the original harness, or the jumper I made up, no difference....
Removing the tach lead & the lead to the neutral safety switch has no effect....:confused:
The new alternator reads steady at 13V......
The ohm meter reads .146 (2K scale)from battery + to coil lead + with it disconnected from the coil.....
 

bruceb58

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

The ohm meter reads .146 (2K scale)from battery + to coil lead + with it disconnected from the coil.....
That is not a valid reading. On a 2K scale that is indicating 146 ohms so that appears off by a factor of 100 or so. Does your meter have a lower resolution scale?
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

That is not a valid reading. On a 2K scale that is indicating 146 ohms so that appears off by a factor of 100 or so. Does your meter have a lower resolution scale?
What scale should I be on??????
200 or the other way?.....
 

bruceb58

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

200 or lower if you have it. You are trying to measure single digit ohms.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

200 or lower if you have it. You are trying to measure single digit ohms.
@200 it says 108.4....
That's as low as it goes....
the rest of the settings are the other way...:rolleyes:
 

bruceb58

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

Hmmm..something is very wrong. It can't possibly be 108 ohms unless the wire is bad.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

Hmmm..something is very wrong. It can't possibly be 108 ohms unless the wire is bad.
Thats why I was asking if a resistance wire can go bad.....
It just seems odd that both would do the same thing....
Should I try a resistor block of some type?....
Any suggestions?.....
I'm baffled because with the key in the 'run' position, it is right where it needs to be, but once I start it, it goes up, & once I rev it it goes up even further....
If I shut if off, I can repeat that cycle...
I have had this boat for seven years & it has never been a problem....
Could the coil overheat have damaged the resistor cable in some way?....
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

The primary coil resistance is 1.4 @ 200....
The resistor wire reads reads 1.8-1.9.....
The book says the coil should be 1.2 & the resistor should be 1.3 - 1.7....
I have a coil from another Merc setup that reads 1.2 & the other resistor wire reads 1.7, but I still get pretty much the same result...
Is there some magical # that I'm trying to get to?...
Can the battery size affect this reading?....
It never did in the past....
 

bruceb58

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

Sounds like you are in the ballpark on your resistance readings. Your meter is not that accurate to be reading tenths of an ohm so you are probably in spec.

If you had a 1.4 ohm coil and a 1.7 ohm wire, your voltage measured at the coil with a fully charged battery should be. 1.4 / (1.7 + 1.4) * 12.6 = 5.7V

Sounds like you are ok there.

When you are running the voltage will be higher since the points will be open a certain percentage of the time so no current will be flowing through the coil and resistor while the points are open so there will be no voltage drop. If your alternator was putting out 13.5V I would figure the voltage would be around 9V. Using the previous formula for the voltage while the poins are closed = 1.4 / (1.7 + 1.4) * 13.5 * .667 = 4.06. For the voltage while points opwn 13.5V + .333 = 4.5V. The total would be 8.5V but will be slightly higher more than likely because of the inductance of the coil.

I am assuming 30 degrees of dwell. If your dwell is lower, the voltage would be higher.

So the only thing missing which you should measure is your dwell angle and your voltage of your alternator.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

Sounds like you are in the ballpark on your resistance readings. Your meter is not that accurate to be reading tenths of an ohm so you are probably in spec.

If you had a 1.4 ohm coil and a 1.7 ohm wire, your voltage measured at the coil with a fully charged battery should be. 1.4 / (1.7 + 1.4) * 12.6 = 5.7V

Sounds like you are ok there.

When you are running the voltage will be higher since the points will be open a certain percentage of the time so no current will be flowing through the coil and resistor while the points are open so there will be no voltage drop. If your alternator was putting out 13.5V I would figure the voltage would be around 9V. Using the previous formula for the voltage while the poins are closed = 1.4 / (1.7 + 1.4) * 13.5 * .667 = 4.06. For the voltage while points opwn 13.5V + .333 = 4.5V. The total would be 8.5V but will be slightly higher more than likely because of the inductance of the coil.

I am assuming 30 degrees of dwell. If your dwell is lower, the voltage would be higher.

So the only thing missing which you should measure is your dwell angle and your voltage of your alternator.
The dwell is thirty degrees, I have not measured the alt output, I will later thanks!....
 

frank246

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

Lets get back to the start
That coil came with the boat... why was it replaced?
You swapped the ignition key switch and starter solenoid so no more power to the coil when the ignition key is out.
You took the ? coil and measure higher voltages than expected with the unneccesary wires like the start boost and tacho disconnected but only the resistorwire and points connected, right?
It should be fine now!
If you leave the ingnition on in this situation does the coil gets hot and what if you operate the boat?
Good luck!
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

Lets get back to the start
That coil came with the boat... why was it replaced?
You swapped the ignition key switch and starter solenoid so no more power to the coil when the ignition key is out.
You took the ? coil and measure higher voltages than expected with the unneccesary wires like the start boost and tacho disconnected but only the resistorwire and points connected, right?
It should be fine now!
If you leave the ingnition on in this situation does the coil gets hot and what if you operate the boat?
Good luck!
It is the coil that came with the boat....(7 years)
It overheated & leaked oil while sitting in the driveway after I changed the Y pipe....
I had changed the slave solenoid, because it looked crusty....
After the coil problem, I checked the keyswitch & was getting continuity to the start or 'A' terminal with the key in the 'off' or in the 'run' position, so I replaced the switch.....
At this point I was also getting continuity between the 's' & 'I' terminals on the solenoid with all wires disconnected, so I replaced that yet again....
I think that the coil was getting full voltage with the key off, & caused the coil overheat....
I replaced the points, condenser & cap, timed it to 10 BTDC & 300 degreees dwell....
The coil does not seem hot, but I have not run the engine other in the driveway, but I was concerned at the voltage reading, & I really don't want to break down on the water....
At this point, I am going to run it & see what happens...
I have boat US & a kicker, but I would rather not be forced to use either one....
Thanks for any input you have....:)
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

Bump.....:confused:
Engine not running, key on, battery 12.0 v
points closed 4.86 v...
Points open, 11.8 V...
 

rodbolt

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

points open,no current flow, you read battery voltage from the coil terminal to ground.
points closed current is flowing and your now measuring the voltage drop of the ign primary circuit to the coil + terminal.
subtract the 4.8 from battery voltage and that gives you coil operating voltage.
the reason you see the primary voltage rse is due to the collapsing magnetic field introducing voltage on both the primary windings and in the secondary windings.
check it running with a DVA meter and you will see about 140 volts.
running,checking with a standard DVM and its an average.
the voltage is always trying to swing between 4.8,points closed, and battery voltage,points open.
eventually its going to look like an AC wave form thats been clipped.
to get a closer reading on the drop of just the resistor wire, red lead at the resistor wire power tap to coil primary + key on points closed and subtract that from battery voltage for a better indication of coil operating voltage.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

points open,no current flow, you read battery voltage from the coil terminal to ground.
points closed current is flowing and your now measuring the voltage drop of the ign primary circuit to the coil + terminal.
subtract the 4.8 from battery voltage and that gives you coil operating voltage.
the reason you see the primary voltage rse is due to the collapsing magnetic field introducing voltage on both the primary windings and in the secondary windings.
check it running with a DVA meter and you will see about 140 volts.
running,checking with a standard DVM and its an average.
the voltage is always trying to swing between 4.8,points closed, and battery voltage,points open.
eventually its going to look like an AC wave form thats been clipped.
to get a closer reading on the drop of just the resistor wire, red lead at the resistor wire power tap to coil primary + key on points closed and subtract that from battery voltage for a better indication of coil operating voltage.
From what I gather, I should be OK then.....Thanks!...:)
 

rodbolt

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

I know I posted on this but I dont see it, its been a bit crazy in here today.
to much estrogen and most speak no english.
a quick way to test coil operating voltage.
go from the I terminal or the power tap area for the resistor wire to the ign coil + post.
with key on engine off,points closed, this will be the voltage drop in the ign circuit to the coil +.
subtract that from battery voltage and you have coil operating voltage.
points open from block to coil + is battery voltage or should be very close.
points closed from engine block to ground with key on and your measureing the voltage drop of the coil,point contact and ground plate and if equipped the coil internal resistor.
to test voltage drop on the entire ign circuit,points closed key on, test between the battery + terminal to coil primary +.

the reason you see the voltage rise as engine speed increases is two fold.
one is battery voltage typically climbs some, the DVA meter will show about 140 volts on the coil + terminal.
and what yor reading from coil+ to engine ground is the circuit trying to rapidly swing from about battery voltage to 0 V and most digital meters will buffer the difference.
if your measuring 4V from coil positive to block ground with the points closed move to the - coil,should see less than .5V with points closed key on.
if ore inspect all conections,point contacts and the ground plate.

an easy way to visualize it is draw it out on paper,straight line.
then apply a voltage at one end of the drawing ending with the ground signal at the other.
if I draw a straight piece of wire from positive to negative with a lght bulb in the middle,then I put 2 test points in front of the bulb and 2 test points afrter.
plug it in the lamp is lit.
place a meter lead one on the positive leave it there the rest of the test. the other on point 1,if no resistance is noted I get 0V,point two is the same,positive side of the bulb,the same,negative side of the bulb I will get a small voltage,this is the voltage drop in my wire so far.
points 3 and 4 will read the same as the - side of my bulb unless there is a bad connection or anydevice that drops voltage.
now subsitute a resistance wire,coil windings,point contact resistance and ground plate for the test points an bulb.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Baffled By Voltage @ Coil 888 Merc...

The problem was the dwell was wrong....
Faulty instrument had bad reading, used my neighbor's meter because he wanted to see if it still worked & got a very different reading than I had been getting.....:rolleyes:
Changed the points again, & it is normal....
The I believe original problem was the faulty ign switch feeding voltage with the key off........
Thanks for the electrical lesson, Tom.....:)
 
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