Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

[poconojoe]

OK, newbie in the powerboat scene.
2003 Bayliner 185 (18') Bow rider 4.3 L Mercruser Alpha 1 drive.
Boat currently has Two batteries and a Perko switch with off, 1, 2 or all positions.
I'm looking for the best way to manage the two batteries. Priority being that my start battery be protected to prevent us from being stranded.
Many choose the Blue Sea ACR, which I was leaning toward using. Specifically the "add a battery" system. This seems like a no brainer, practically no input, self regulating system that even a newbie would be safe with.
Then I came across an item by Sterling Power. The "Pro Split-R zero volt drop isolator". zero volt drop marine battery isolator
So, what's the difference between these two?
Advantages or disadvantages of both?
Opinions?
Thanks,
Joe

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

For your use, no difference.

Just so you know, the add a battery switch would require you to separate all your loads into engine loads and house loads. For your application, you may just want to keep your present Perko switch and just add an ACR of your choice.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

About $60.....

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

About $60.....

LOL...that too.

 

[Splat]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

And a more creative marketing team...

 

[sam am I]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

This might help, do some research, there's other nice options out there, depending on your needs other than what we are tending to see here.......I am setting up a three bank system with a split r. Fits my needs spot on and APPEARS to be quite smart about how it manages batts and routes the alt. current around from one batt to another. Setup seems easy, give or take a few bucks, if it works well and I'm pleased with the performance, I'm good.


Pro Split R's review came in at the top......I shall see, you know what they say about opinions? it's ordered.







Something like this I reckon, works on paper anyway. It will have fuses of course where appropriate, just a sketch up at this point.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

The Pro Split looks like a good option when you have more than 2 batteries.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

...Pro Split R's review came in at the top......I shall see, you know what they say about opinions?

View attachment 221977View attachment 221975View attachment 221976

Can you provide the link to the article?
I would like to read the review.
It is too low of resolution in the photos to do so.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

The manual for this leaves a lot to be desired. Is it a British thing?

 

[dingbat]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

The manual for this leaves a lot to be desired. Is it a British thing?

Lucas back in business?......lol

 

[bobdec]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

Don't want to hijack this thread, but have a question that applies to use of an ACR or isolator. I have a two battery setup with a Perco 1-2-both-off switch. My my #1 batt is a cranking battery and #2 is a deep cycle battery. I start on #1 and run out with it to charge then switch to #2 when anchored, and then usually can restart start on #2 to and charge it up when running home. If I install an ACR is there any problems combining the cranking and deep cell together with the relay ? Engine is a '96 150 Mercury OB 40 amp alternator. Boat is covered dry rack stored, no electricity, solar charging is feasible.

 

[sam am I]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

No worries, this one should go non-linear anyway.....Here, I'll help it with hmmmmmmmmm? Ahhhhhhhhh!! THIS should do it for now!!!


Mechanical verses Solid State?






http://www.crydom.com/en/Tech/Newsletters/Solid Statements - SSRs vs EMRs.pdf


The infamous Bluesea ACR-SI's are mechanical BTW, Tom in tech support said they use two 80 Amps in parallel for the 120 Amp spec though.:fear:

Nothing is bulletproof though. Yes, even solid state smokes.

Sooooooooo a Pearl from my Lawyer? He told me once, "You can ask 10 different lawyers the same exact question and you'll get 11 different answers" And to think, I paid for that?:facepalm:

I suggest you Google this/the current days technology in these area's, what happens worst case when you switch two batts in and out of parallel with each other, techniques developed to avoid doing this and achieve same results, use/weed through the reams of info that exists here(and other sites like this)based on REAL experiences and facts, NOT opinions(those are as common as @$$holes here!!)

Research pro and cons of each as they apply to your specific needs and make your own informed decisions bases on "best practices" out there. After all, you'll be the guy buying it, most likely be the guy installing it, using it and best of all? Replacing it someday and can't blame anyone one of us........bahahahaha. JMO:laugh:

Let the opinions flow........

 

[ssobol]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

Don't want to hijack this thread, but have a question that applies to use of an ACR or isolator. I have a two battery setup with a Perco 1-2-both-off switch. My my #1 batt is a cranking battery and #2 is a deep cycle battery. I start on #1 and run out with it to charge then switch to #2 when anchored, and then usually can restart start on #2 to and charge it up when running home. If I install an ACR is there any problems combining the cranking and deep cell together with the relay ? Engine is a '96 150 Mercury OB 40 amp alternator. Boat is covered dry rack stored, no electricity, solar charging is feasible.

I do a similar thing. I start on batt #1, run for 20-30 minutes and then switch to batt #2 and use that for the rest of the trip. If we stay out overnight we continue to use batt #2. If the battery is too flat to start the engine in the morning, I just switch to batt #1 and proceed as usual.

Batt #1 is reserved for starting the engine. Batt #2 is for everything else. The battery logic is controlled by one Perko switch. No muss, no fuss. I think adding some electronic device to do effectively the same thing is just over complicating things.

I do have a 50 amp breaker between the batteries and all the loads (after the switch). When I store the boat, I open the breaker to isolate the batteries from all loads.

 

[sam am I]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

@ ssobol,

I agree, I might be going there. ohhhhhh dang, and I like the 50 Amp breaker idea!!! It's in parallel across the batts on your "off, 1 both 2" switch, right?

My system is as yours it appears (schematic above with but added pro r and additional perko) and I use it exactly/sorta as you and bobdec's. I would always start on 1 or 2 or both(hard to say, I made that up as I went along), make sure I charged "both" running and shut off and switch to 2 to use "play" power.

But being lazy'ish or otherwise "incapacitated"........wait, soooo focused on the catch, I forget!!!

In my new hopeful pretend world to which I have drawn up, I've added only two things'ish(schottkey diodes not included), another perko and the pro r.

In theory(just like the NASA ppl say before things go way wrong sometimes), I will always line up two switches when i get in the boat, each switch will be set to batt "#1"'s positions and run that way always, or until "off".

All 3 batts will be charging/managed during the run time in this configuration with "zero drop" solid state Mill. spec/Medical grade, zero loss, no leakage relays......lol, added that for fun. When shut down, and without touching any switches still, my start batt is iso'd automagically from my house battery is iso'd from start system and I have an added bonus batt., a iso'd wild card battery.......


If I need extra/emergency power, a MANUAL "off 1 both 2" Perko switch is used still, just like I/we have been doing.

BUT, I can use the fresh, save the day and get the girl wild card #2 battery as a single stand-in(1 both 2 switch switched over to "2") in either system or as a paralleled batt("both" if I *WANT* to) in either system or parallel all three((if I *WANT* to) . .......think that about covers some 50% of my paranoia. My therapist and I are working on the rest.

****As prescribed, The "off/on/both" switches will have you paralleling your start batt. to your backup batt(typically house), you can't choose JUST house(batt 2)...This is Non-sense, why be forced to parallel the perhaps way low/dead'ish/wahtever batt with your good(last hope, hope we live) batt to try to get started? Silly silly thing to buy and install IMHO, see link below)

As I said, I shall see. I'll go by the manu's spec's and cross my fingers. If I'm still alive, I'll report real measured results, I'll put a data logger on all the system's batts, it will simultaneously record all the analog levels(16 channels max I think it has) and plot them over time (hours)and show some graphs.....love graphs, they're soooooo real!!!


@U.W., I'm looking for the link, the PDF is all I saved and doesn't fit here on iboats uploads. I need the Platinum space upgrade plan......



http://forums.iboats.com/electrical...switches-batterys-its-power-thing-635254.html

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

Lucas back in business?......lol

I think I would trust a mechanical relay in this instance if I was just doing 2 batteries. BlueSea has had their product out a long time. I will let Sam be the guinea pig on this one. If it was made by BlueSea, I might trust it.

The nice thing about how the BlueSea ACR hooks up is that if it ever fails(stays open) the worst thing that will happen is the batteries won't combine. With the Sterling device, since the alternator output gets connected to this device and it relies on electronics to turn on FETs to connect the battery loads, a failure will cause your alternator to not be connected to anything and get blown. I like the simpler BlueSea type ACR any day, at least the way it connects to the two batteries.

 

[sam am I]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

Well they claim they have a "fail safe" that if the whole thing goes T.U., which I assume includes any and all algorithms/microprocessor functions, "the alt input defaults/remains connected to the start batt. lug". But, we've all heard of "fail safe systems". I'm sure Bluesea claims they have fail safe's as well? Hell, my first marriage was fail safe!!!

My best guess in addition to your guess of a purely active floating/open input happening Bruce, Is that due to having a active FET switch(SP3T or SPDT etc) front in, that during switching/current routing to and among the other batteries, the input experiences active opens by default during normal operations. These high impedance active open states must exists for at least the transition switching times in between one battery to the next which they claim by design, the unit is always actively switching to where the current is needed.

Given this and it doesn't just blow up alts. switching around normally, they undoubtedly "pre-load" the alt....... it most likely has a passive load resistor hard wired to ground just on the back side of the alt in stud. This would doubly protect the alt. from seeing a float condition if the units primary fail safe fails to hook it to the start batt.

I'll measure it and not do the guessing game though, I'll post that and plots when i get it, shying away from making unknown, unmeasured, undocumented subjective claims.

As far as how long this thing been out there, they claim 6 yrs, and I see as far as 4 or 5 yrs ago in posts mainly in Australia I believe. I certainly won't be the first using it.

Like I said, If it works as advertised and I'm pleased, It's all good.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

it most likely has a passive load resistor hard wired to ground just on the back side of the alt in stud.

I kinda doubt that. Maybe you can take it apart and show us what it looks like.

 

[sam am I]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

I don't, I'd design it that way just for that simple fact.........I'll measure it un-powered for a passive input valve. No need to open it for that. BUT.......If they don't have one, I'll add one...which is a sad commentary if their engineers didn't!!


However.....No doubt in my mind, I will be opening it!! I'll cut it open if I have too!!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

I don't, I'd design it that way just for that simple fact.........I'll measure it un-powered for a passive input valve. No need to open it for that. However.....No doubt in my mind, I will be opening it!! I'll cut it open if I have too!!

Gonna get pretty hot with a passive load resistor.

Have fun with it!

 

[sam am I]

Re: Battery management: Blue Sea ACR vs Pro Split R zero voltage drop isolator

Wht's the spec on minimum load on your alt? 100mA?, 200mA? 1 amp?

P = I^2 * R

@ 1 amp load

14V/1 Amp = 14Ω's, 1^2 * 14Ω's = 14 watts.........No Problems. My reels get hotter than that bringing in salmon.

It's in the box though, even on the other side of the world they know to pre-load alts!!