boat rot...wet foam prevention.

[oops!]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

ok....i got it...!


had a 10 hour drive and had time to let my mind wander....

bondo-s words kept comin back to me......grab the pfd's......


ok...so if the deck is on...and we cut a 14 inch wide by...what? say 7 inch inspection hatch......(in an inconspicous spot)....and tie... say.... seven old adult life jackets on a string....we could stuff thoes under the floor....7 on each side.....thats 2800 lbs of bouyancy.....my hull has 8 inch high stringers on the strakes...more than enough room....i had 4 of them puppies in a b2b lounger !

each season end you just grab the string and start pulling....take them out and let them dry!....(you would have air vents in the floor anyhow for air circ)

you could get the life jackets from any garage sale...cheap...get the ones no one wants to wear....3 bucks each....and done !

if the hull snaps in two..the worst that happens is life jackets pop up everywhere !

it still does not address the foam-structural integrety issue...but its a start !
no ping pong balls....no foam encased ziploc bags!


whadda ya think....???????

oops

 

[Coors]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

Drainage is the answer.
the floor in my cuddy cabin got spongy, upon cutting it out (5/16 of glass and mat on the ply, poorly applied), some rain and wet kids had seeped into the foam. Guess what- no drainage from the factory through the bulkhead to under the tank, and into the bilge. Trapped water loves foam and vice versa.
Drainage!

 

[Coors]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

Oh, the foam is gone, and plastic bottles now reside there.

 

[Bondo]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

if the hull snaps in two..the worst that happens is life jackets pop up everywhere !

Ayuh,....... Oops,.. I'm startin' ta Like you,......

I Love the Idea,..... 'ell,.... I'll buy brand new Used 1s every year........

And Coors has gotten it Right Idea,.... Drainage is the Key to hull life.....

By the looks of your Rebuild,...
I don't think you'll have to worry about Hull Integrity,.... Your stringer system will carry the loads for you,...
No need for Foam there.....

 

[Coors]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

Now everyone will be running to the flea markets, and buying up all the used, scraped up pdf's. Dang it, used pdf inflation prices are coming.

 

[jcsercsa]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

Hi guys just read this hole thing , dont know where i was to miss this one , but hes my two cents , the foam is 98 precent water proof , if i rember right ???? that is what i am going to pour 16 cubic feet in my girl, so not even half a cubic foot of it that can get water logged !!! If i am wrong but that what i read on one of the sites, i will try to find it and post it here !! the closed cell foam is the best bet I think !! the older foam I sure know wasnt !!! the foam i tore out weight 500 lbs of wet foam , at least!!!
Plus all the added structure it adds to the hull . on ooops yours dont need the added structure { the tank } { lol }and i dont really think mine needs all the structure on mine , being a tri-hull and as small as mine 15,6 feet but knowing me i will push it perrty hard so I wont mind it ,and It didnt have it all the way out on the wings the foam was only in the center and it was the block type foam !! It was glued there at one point , wasnt stuck when i tore it apart thoew!!!
I kind of like the pool floats but i think your loseing a lot of floatation, and dont they melt when gas meets them ?? amd they do dry rott!! I know a lot of that has to do with the sun , but I dont really think they will last 20 years ???
The ping poog balls !!!!!!!!! lol I like it ooops for your baby girl , but If i see on the national news where there is 10000 floating ping poog balls on some lake , and you know it would make it on the news !!! I will be be calling you !!!!! just hope they dont make you fish them all out !!!!!! lol ohh man was just thinking thatt if you didnt have hair it might be hard for them to pic you out of the water !!!!! hahahahahahahaha
Ok thats my two cent !!! lol John

 

[jasono2l]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

Does any body know if a rubber membrane over the glas but under the carpet might help. If it it sticky enough rubber it might even seal the holes as the screw goes in. Gind of the run flat tire concept you know. May be a dumb idea, but I had an extra 2 cents.

 

[oops!]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

Does any body know if a rubber membrane over the glas but under the carpet might help. If it it sticky enough rubber it might even seal the holes as the screw goes in. Gind of the run flat tire concept you know. May be a dumb idea, but I had an extra 2 cents.

ok backwards first....as i still cant figgureout multi quote...

jason......i dont really undrestand the stuff your reffering to.....but coors sealed the screw deal......epoxy or not.... ( ) all screw holes must be sealed......if im missing your point buddy... please elaborate......
im just a dumb schmuck!

cheers
oops

 

[oops!]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

john.....were trying to get rid of foam........

bond-o says....(and hes right....imho) "foam is just there to rot the stringers"

under 20 feet ....the law says you have to have flotation....hence the ping pong balls.and pool noodles.....i dont wanna clean up the lake when my 40 year old poly seperates from the new poly.....(but it wont),,,,so we want ideas on how to invent the flotation wheel.....so to speak......

however .......

rob j has a really good point that the foam adds to structural integerity of the hull.....approx...10 %...if i remember right.

so if we take away the traditional "foam job"...and replace it with "somthing else"......we gotta solve the integrity problem........

now......
when i was spending hours (and hours) grinding out my hull....i ran into some black stuff...... really tough stuff to grind thru...i mean tough !
it was called flo coat......?????......(imho...yeah.... so...what is it?).... im working on that......it wasnt rhino liner...but it was strong enough to re-inforce the hull...man that was tough stuff...and i think...there was no way water would get thru...ever...!

so...if you used that in concert with some kind of other flotation...all probs solved !

no more three hundred dollar messy foam jobs.......(just and endless sea of ping pong balls )

 

[oops!]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

coors......

glad you dropped in.......


drainage is paramount....!!!!!

td says "keep the bow up high".......

but what does it matter if the hull is blocked...!

so........

we build so there is LOTS of drainage....lots of thru deck inspection ports.....(closed..or vent type...take your pick).....

lots of air gettin...THRU.....

(vented ...allways....).....sealed.....(except for the drain to bilge channels) (the area would be a ....temporary air chamber).....untill we opened it up and let it ventelate... once or twice a season.....then at the end of the season...we pull the string and dry the pfd's....no mould....no fuss...and float if sink.

whadda ya think?

 

[oops!]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

and bond-o

with all your three finger typing........

and "think about it" ....."four times"....and read what you said "twice" answers....


ill pull the durn boat there and well have a beer on board!

cheers
oops

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

cut open a PFD what inside? foam or a sealed bags of celulose fibers. a lot of the first glass boats were "double hull" the deck was sealed, to the hull, and a couple of drain plugs in the the bilge well, then the transom drain plug. the did not prove effective, and the compartment drain would get pulled and not reinserted.

 

[jcsercsa]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

john.....were trying to get rid of foam........

Yea I understood that ooops , didnt want to give the impression that i didnt , what my point was that 98 precent is closed cell , where you going to find anything that has better floating abilty ??? the ping poog balls your going to loose what , i would say 15 precent in the gaps ?? the bladder all leak sometime . you could set it up to where you could pull it out at the end of the season , but if you hit something its going to bust the bladder , and like we said the balls floating and you swimming ,
I just dont see anything that is going to fill the gapps and add the floatation ,and add the strength .
I really think its in the drainage , I really liked fishingohios idea of adding the blower !!! I was thinking about this In my tread when i said adding the pvc tubing cut to fit from the front to the back and if I seal it up right { do it right this time } it should last another 40 + years !!! and 40 years would put me at 85, and I sure hope by then I can afford to just go buy a new one and not worrie about breaking the bank !! Dont get me wrong I really like what i am doing now but at 85 I Dont Even Think So !!!!! Hope I can superivce the grandkids by then doing one !!!!
I just dont see where there is anything that is better then 98 precent water proof !!!!!! OK theres my 3 cents !! LoL John

 

[Bondo]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

and bond-o

with all your three finger typing........

Naw,... Nope,..... No Way,......

That's Single Digit Typin'............

the closed cell foam is the best bet I think !! the older foam I sure know wasnt !!! the foam i tore out weight 500 lbs of wet foam , at least!!!

Nope,...... The Crap you pulled out that weighed 500lbs,.....
Was Waterproof Foam when it was put there........

That's what I've been saying for Years,.......
2 things that'll Never be found in a Boat,......
Waterproof Foam,+ Waterproof Compartments,.. Do NOT exist in boats,.... Period.....

cut open a PFD what inside? foam or a sealed bags of celulose fibers.

Ayuh,...... But if I'm throwing them away, annually....

Who Cares...........

 

[jcsercsa]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

That's what I've been saying for Years,.......
2 things that'll Never be found in a Boat,......
Waterproof Foam,+ Waterproof Compartments,..
Hay Bond-o yes i will agree that its not ever going to be waterproof !!!!!! now on the foam I though that i read somewhere in the early 90s that there was major evancements by Dow chem, that made the stuff !!! I know its not water proof but , its says 98 , and the structure of the old stuff looks alot different then the stuff I am planning on useing . John

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

guys this is an endless battle, no one is right, and no one is wrong. you have to use your best judgment of what you want to use, and take the consequences. water is a stranger substance. it's going to go where ever it wants to, eventually.

 

[redfury]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

oops!, multi quote is done by clicking once in each post you want to click, the "+ symbol next to "quote", and then clicking "quote" in the last post you want to use in your "quotes".

My idea was to put foam on the starboard and port sides of the boat and leave the middle pretty much foam free. Plus, I planned to include the vents that have the check ball in them so water can't just run down into the hull, but hot air can push out of it. That's the problem with an "air tight" compartment, heat expansion and cold compression of the air. Eventually, it won't be air tight ( water tight ).

All I know is that I plan to put a lot of thought into my particular hull design drainage so that I can reduce the risk of water infiltration. I wonder how much thought is put into it, or at what point it was really put into the engineering of boats in general.

 

[LeftFeild]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=188444&highlight=foam

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=169006&highlight=foam

 

[jcsercsa]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

guys this is an endless battle, no one is right, and no one is wrong. you have to use your best judgment of what you want to use, and take the consequences. water is a stranger substance. it's going to go where ever it wants to, eventually.[/quote]

Yes I agree tashasdaddy, I wasnt really trying to fight about it !! and Its all a matter of choice !!! and you have to trust what you are going to do !! there are a lot of lifes that trust decisions. John

 

[oops!]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

guys this is an endless battle, no one is right, and no one is wrong. you have to use your best judgment of what you want to use, and take the consequences. water is a stranger substance. it's going to go where ever it wants to, eventually.

agree totally.......all of boat building is...(or seems to be..)

poly or epoxy.....wood or composite.....i/o or outboard....what kind of gauges....and on...and on....

thats why im happy that this fourm exists......

if my boat sinks....and we got a lake full of ping pong balls floating around....
john can get on here and tell every one ...not to do it that way