bombardier / johnyrude

Forktail

Ensign
Joined
Feb 11, 2002
Messages
977
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

Paved the way? To where? Bankruptcy and buy-out? Hello? The only thing that made Bombardier successful is Bombardier. Not Johnyrude. Bombardier is dealing with OMC's downfalls as we speak. In a few years there will be nothing about a Bombardier outboard that resembles what the old OMC made.<br /><br />Respect? What does respect have to do with changing times? You guys totally missed the point. Your personal views are clouding your business views. Respect? Remember I own a small business myself.<br /><br />omc frank, do you think Bombardier or the consumer wants to do business with this kind of a dealer relationship.......?<br /><br />"My mesage to bombardiere is lightem up or go away"<br /><br />"not dictate it with that big corporate heavy hand of yours !!!!" <br /><br />"hey bomb until we see johnson and evienrude tatoos on peoples arms you need to lighten up and forget about folowing in harleys footsteps"<br /><br />"bombardiere is more woried about a fresh coat of paint on the walls new floor tile than a master tech award" <br /><br />"i dont think they realy care about top shelf technitions"<br /><br />"this is just another exAmple of the bull crap they push on us"<br /><br />"being delt with by bombardier unfairly after being a loyal deticated dealer thru this all now to see these new policys witch at very least are creating a totaly unlevel playing field"<br /><br />"bombardiere needs to lighten up a bit there hard nosed attitude is at the very least! slowing down there recovery"<br /><br />With this attitude, why in the world would BombB want to cover your dealership's warranty claims and keep you around? And why would I want to buy one from you? And better yet, why do you even want to sell them? What exactly does Bombardier owe you for? And how have you earned your privilege to have and keep one of their dealerships? Exactly what have you contributed to help make Bombardier's Johnyrude successful, besides negativity? You did say outboards were your "way of life" didn't you? How have you secured this "way of life" with BombB....by slamming them? <br /><br />I have an idea for you. Buy Bombardier's Johnyrude division yourself and run it your way. You can cover warranty repairs for all discounted commercially sold motors exactly as those outboards purchased for personal use, and especially for those warranty repairs for competition tournament fisherman. You can give Power Boost Rebates to them all. And forget about 16 unit quotas. You can issue rebates for any dealer that sells just one outboard. That will really be an incentive for dealers to sell motors. And make sure every dealer carries inventory of a 10 hp powerhead, or at least have your company build an extra thousand of them in case they fail sometime on down the road. Don't worry about computers, CD's or palm pilots, you're steering away from fuel injection and going back to carbs like the old OMC, right? And give those mom and pop dealerships all the latitude in the world. Welcome them all. I see about 1,000 of them lined up right now that you're going to need to support and supply.<br /><br />Oh, and while your at it try to stay out of Bankruptcy and remember you have to compete with Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, Merc, and the rest. Lastly, don't forget the customer.<br /><br />Unless you change your way of thinking and your attitude towards your outboard supplier, I think you're going to have a hard time omc frank. It has nothing to do with your abilities as a mechanic or small businessman. But understand....get on the train, or get out of the way. I didn't make those rules of the game, that's just the way they are whether good or bad.<br /><br />I'm over and out on this one. :)
 

Frank Martin

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 5, 2002
Messages
132
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

Thanks for your coments forktail it always makes for interesting reading on this board ! we do have very diferent opinions on these issues . i have seen many big companys fail and small ones too from Giant steel mills to outboard companys from scott attwater, omc the like the common thread here is Taking care of people that support you! weather it be a costomer or employee and i dont totally disagree with many of your points . i am glad there are people out there who like bomb so much as to speak up in there favor (again i hope they do Great) this gives me hope to hold on as long as i can with them . but there are are other very good motors knocking on the door and i will fail if i dont listen and take care of my people (customers and employes)just as bomb will. only bomb will just get out of the outboard buisness like greenway partners gruop did . I cant get out its in my blood i wouldnt know what else to do i love this buisness and most all the good people in it .If any of my coments ofended you or anyonr else I am sory they where not ment to!
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

Forktail ,dealers that sold and serviced Johnny/Rude for years as their predecessors deserve a voice,as do the men of early football who didn't run as fast or stop as quick as todays players yet mustered wide spread interest in the event and led to it's ultimate wealth. Respect is just what it means.Look it up.You've been hammering on Franks poor spelling skills throughout this thread.No point.You'll do better to speak for yourself when you say the public doesn't want to trade with that kind of dealer.In my book it makes him no less a good person to do business with.As for your prediction that bombardiers products in a few years won't resemble what the old OMC made I say that's too bad.I happen to feel that OMC made some good outboards that stood the test of time.I've owned a few.Everyone is entitled to their own opinion given their circumstances.I don't know you personally,however you seem like a smug unhappy man that treats people that you have intellectually sized up as if they were lesser than yourself.True that the times are ever changing and fast paced ,but it does't make them better times if men cannot respect men.I truly hope this post did not leave us enemies ,but that we as people can better understand one another.
 

StormRunner

Cadet
Joined
Sep 10, 2002
Messages
7
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

Gee forky really struck a nerve with the old omc crowd. He did get arogant (sp?) but you boys ganged up and accused him of working for bombadier twice and writing policy for bombadier and being a dealer. You also said he had no respect and was slamming you and was a smug unhappy man. Reading thru the posts I don't see that. He hit the nail on the head and you didnt' like it. I don't see where forky said the changes were good and nice for small dealers only that they worked and were competative with the industry and bombadier would use their past experience to make it work. How can the common thread here be taking care of people that support you when you badmouth your outboard supplier to customers and employees and public. What kind of support example is that. What would you do if your customers and employees bad mouthed you. If it wasn't for bombadier scraping omc off the ground you wouldn't even have a chance to badmouth them because they would be gone and your dealership. Looks to me like you turned respect into you owe me. I can't spell either but it is bad that a dealer receives master tech award from omc since 1967 and still hasn't learned how to spell the main word warranty. How can he read and interpit the technical manuals and computers on these new high pressure injected outboards and submit proper warranty. Lighten up everyone there is looks like a lot to learn here.
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

Stormrunner, i never accused Forktail of spit.What i said was that he seemed smug and unhappy.don't twist the facts.As to him hitting the nail on the head, that's your opinion.As for me not liking it yuo're out stepping your telepathic abilities by telling me what I feel.As for Frank bad mouthing his supplier only frank knows why he feels the way he does and because Bombardier is his supplier does't automatically make them right.Perhaps in his best interest he should bite his lip.as for Bombardier scraping OMCoff ground is your wording.I see them as an entity that bought out a company who was in financial dire straits and apparently felt their product line was worth doing so.And finally,you assume that because Franks spelling is no better than you profess to have that he doesn't have the capacity to interpret tech manuals.To quote Bill O'reilly I'll give you the last word and let the readers decide.
 

StormRunner

Cadet
Joined
Sep 10, 2002
Messages
7
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

Yea sure, and to quote Bill Clinton, "I did not have sexual relations with that women"<br /><br />ob no one was pointing you out specifically or does old omc crowd and the boys mean just you. A little defensive perhaps. Looks like your doing the hokey pokey and backstep together now. Relax and enjoy the day for pete sake.
 

butlp

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 26, 2002
Messages
302
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

StormRunner,<br />Welcome to the board and thank you for the well written posts. <br /><br />Firstly, I too just read this string through and think that Forktail is absolutely correct in his evaluation of Bombardier strategy to profitability. In today's market, it's the only way to go, just like every other large conglomerate in the sales and service industry.<br /><br />I too was shocked to read a present Bombardier dealer slamming the company on a public board like this. Good point, how would he feel if his employees were saying the same about him and his organisation. There can't be that many long time OMC dealers in South Chicago, so watch out they may not give you a chance to continue as a dealer and what other company would want such a negative personality.<br /><br />Finally, I too cannot spell to save my life, but like every other person on this board I have access to spellcheckers and I re-read all my posts before hitting the send button. We all make mistakes, but for heavens sake, some of the posts are near illegible. :rolleyes:
 

Frank Martin

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 5, 2002
Messages
132
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

life is too short to let other people get your goat we all have our opinions the best part of this board is the diference of opinions forktails posts mostly seem to be contrary and argunentitive when you read some of the other posts he gets in on seems he is having fun being contrary as for bombardiere they dont owe us anything no more than scott attwater and if bombardier gets out of the outboard buisness like Mr Sorrow's did, rest easy our dealership will still be there if i seem to be slaming anyone its not ment that way there is always room for improvement my spelling is proof of that as for spell check i know how to use it on email but dont have a clue how to use it on these boards Thank ob part of my problem is i love my old johny/rudes
 

Bear

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Mar 1, 2001
Messages
1,627
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

omc frank,<br />I've been following this from the start. Interesting but I have nothing to say, just one thing about the spellcheck:<br />Use any other program like Word or what you have, use the spellcheck. Copy and paste it here. Just a thought... (Yes I need it too, translation and all. :eek: )<br /> :)
 

butlp

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 26, 2002
Messages
302
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

Frank,<br />Open up a new message in your e-mail and write your iboats response.<br />When your finished, run the spell check and then highlight and save a copy. Change windows and go to iboats, hit "Post A Reply" and just paste your spell checked message into the box and send. You could do the same using MS Word too!<br />Hope this helps!
 

bucky4

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Messages
36
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

An insider's $.02 about Bombardier. <br /><br />I work for a mass transit manufacturer (used to be DaimlerChrysler's Adtranz divisions) that was bought out by Bombardier last year. In the year since the acquisition, the changes around here have been nothing less than phenomenal. The new company's attitude is hardly "laisez faire." They strive for perfection; they demand it -- 110% 24-7. People who didn't perform to standards were not moved to a different dept., as with the old company. No, they were flat-out replaced. Some had 20+ yrs. of service. We were on the brink of bankruptcy and, although we're not out of the woods yet, we are headed toward the black. :D <br /><br />The company is extremely proud of the Bombardier family name and will NOT allow it to become tainted. (We have been told this countless times!) They will stand behind their products, unfortunately, they won't do a thing about the early OMC stuff. :mad: <br /><br />Having experienced the Bombardier attitude first hand, I can only believe they will also pull the Johnny/Rudes out of the hole. <br /><br />Now that I have that off my chest, on to my problem. I have a '97 Ficht 150hp that has 162 hrs. on it. The power head was replaced after 55 hrs and was running very well (except for the annoying miss between 1500-2500 rpms) until two weeks ago. It just died while running WOT and wouldn't restart. I did a compression check (it was OK), checked for spark (one plug fouled) and then replaced the plugs. It fired right up. Took it out on the water, ran it for approximately 5 miles at full throttle and it just quit again. No spark now. Thought it might be heat related, but it still wouldn't start the next day.<br /><br />Anyone know where I can get the latest diagnostic software, user's manual, cable, etc.? My dealer won't order for me. He tells me only dealers are licensed to use the software, which I believe is bulls***. Unfortunately, no other dealers nearby. :confused: <br /><br />thanks,<br /><br />jim
 

seahorse5

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
4,698
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

Here are the part numbers that you need. You can order from any authorized dealer. Try bluewaterboat.com or any other that are advertising in the back of magazines.<br /><br />software ver. 1.42b #5005388 <br /><br />user guide #350281 <br /><br />interface serial cable #437955
 

Boatist

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 22, 2002
Messages
4,552
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

OMC Frank<br />I also hope that Bombardier will continue to make parts for old OMC motors and Johnson and Evinrude. I hope they build new and better 4 stroke motors. No I do not mean buy Sukuzi and put their paint on the outside. I would buy a motor from you anyday and can not belive how rude you were treated. After all the board is to talk about problems and Ideas. It is a shame that Bombardier web site has no info on what they are doing and what there plans are for new products and 4 Stroke. Also that they have no E-Mail or even FAQ section. I tried to call them 3 times but each time only got voice mail.<br />In my area we have 4 Johnson/Evinrude dealers and not a one has a post OMC motor in the store. They all still carry parts and they have Yamaha motors, Mecury motors and Honda motors. Have not found any Suzuki motors yet. I have ask each dealer when Bombardier is going to start making 4 stroke motors again and each has said, have no idea. I ask why they have no Bombardier motors in stock and each has said Bombardier wants them to make big orders of the whole line and right now they have no damand for Bombardier. Dealer here are very much like you they are selling parts and working on the OMC motors in for repair but are not sure they are going to sell Bombardier motors. Most I have talked to do not even want to take about Bombardier. They want to talk about what they heve in stock to sell.<br />I really want them to make it as do here good things about many of their products but my next motor will be a 4 stroke 15 to 25 Hp Kicker motor. I am not going to buy a 4 stroke from someone who does not make it. I just feel if the motor has a design problem and they do not make motor they just are not going to come up with a fix for it. Sure they will repair with like parts until the Warranty runs out then your are stuck.<br />Out here in California some lake now will not allow 2 storke motors at all. Many lake will not allow the old carbarated 2 stroke motors but will still allow the new DFI or EFI cleaner burning 2 stroke motors. I only have OMC and Johnson motors right now and am going to wait until the Jan Boat Shows and see what Bombardier does but if no change from present will most likely buy a Yamaha high thrust motor. Out here I feel in 10 years or less will not be able to run any 2 stoke motor in any lake used for drinking water. That is over 50 percent of the lakes. The delta and ocean will still be legal.<br />My dream engine is a 20 HP 4 Stroke EFI high thrust electric start with at least a 10 amp alternator and voltage regulator, but right now do not think there is one made. Due to weight will mostly likely end up with a 15 HP Ecectric 4 stroke.<br />Frank Thanks for stating this discussion.
 

jegervais

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Messages
646
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

Boatist-<br /><br />You said: "I tried to call them 3 times but each time only got voice mail." What phone number did you call? I can tell you first-hand that the customer service number does not support v/m, you get a real, live body. (Yes, may be times when you'll have to wait, but there isn't v/m.)<br /><br />The correct # is 847-689-7090, 8AM till 4:30PM (Central Time), Mon thru Fri. Hope this helps...<br /><br />-John
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2002
Messages
23
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

O.K. after reading all the Bombardier bashing I'm ready to put in my two cents. First of all I work for Bombardier (Aerospace not OMC) and when thay bought out the company I work for (Learjet) they brought about a lot of changes and yes it pissed off a lot of the old timers but the hard fact is this. Learjet just like OMC was for sale because it was not a money making business. Not only has Bombardier changed that but they have invested millions in the facility. Now correct me if I am wrong but I believe I read that OMC's stock of spare parts was of such POOR quality that they threw most of it in the trash and started over with new inventory. Just like the previously posted reply's stated this is a business and appearently OMC's way of doing business drove them into bankruptcy. I feel that if you would change your negative attitude and be thankful that Bombardier had enough faith in the OMC name to buy them out and try to make it a profitable business rather than let it go the way of so many other U.S. companies have gone (OVERSEAS) I know the changes are tough and not "the way I've alway's done it" but you might be pleasently surprised with the results. IF not then I guess it;s time to call Honda. :rolleyes:
 

Skinnywater

Commander
Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
2,065
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

omc frank,<br />There is a solution and it takes into consideration what you AND Forktail are communicating.<br />Forktail is exactly correct when he says to change with the times. However, this shouldn't mean compromising you or your familys values.<br />If Bombardier's policys and proceedures are compromising those values, or not meeting your business expectations, or your customers expectations, or just plain causing you grief....drop them!<br />Your frustrations with Bombardier are a negative in your business. <br />The Honda company isn't being bought or sold and as you've implied is a positive in your company.<br /><br />Since quality never goes out of style. And the best products are the ones that sell themselves. Along with perception and reputation being so important. I'd offer Yamaha and Honda side by side.<br /><br />Having some experience with past Bombardier products, it isn't that they were bad. It's more that they weren't the best! <br /><br />Frank, I'll take honesty, careing and passionate emotion in your work, over literacy ANYDAY. If your hands turn out good work on a boat, who cares what they do on a keyboard. <br />I read you just fine Frank. You were down at Pop's boat shop learning how to work on boats and the school system didn't spark your interest like the business did. Sure are payin' taxes now though, huh. <br /><br />Yeah, while I didn't see any disrespect in Forktails posts. I surely didn't read any in omc franks either.<br /><br />I'm reading you just fine Frank.<br />Not all the change going on these days is a good thing.
 

Boatist

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 22, 2002
Messages
4,552
Re: bombardier / johnyrude

All of you who work for Bombardier can you tell me if Bombbardier is going to build 4 stroke motors and if so when. I wanted to buy OMC 15 HP 4 stroke for two years before they went under but could not get the motor I wanted. I wanted the 15 HP 4 stroke long shaft electric start with the 4/12 amp alternator. One year you could not get the 15 HP with electric start, it was only on the 9.9 high thrust model. Next year could get the 15hp with electric start but only with the smaller alternator 3/6 that does not have a voltage regulator. Next year OMC was out of business for the San Francisco boat show. This year Bombardier was at the San Francisco boat show and did have a 15 hp 4 stroke motor but one built by Suzuki which was a complete different motor. I liked the old OMC motor as it used the same lower end as my old 1975 15 hp 2 stroke. Since I have several props and part for that motor I wanted to buy that motor. Anyway I am going to wait until the San Francisco Boat Show in January and see what Bombardier has. If they build the old OMC 15 HP 4 storke long shaft electric start with a good alternator I will buy it, but if still selling the Suzuki 15 hp 4 stroke and have no info about a 15 hp 4 stroke bombardier is going to build I will buy a Yamaha.<br />My 1975 15 hp 2 stroke is running but can not use it on some lakes out here and getting pretty old. I would really like to run a cleaner burning 4 stroke and run off my main tank. I would like to buy from Bombardier but not the Suzuki motor. If any of you have any info about 4 strokes I hope you will share.
 
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