Break in question

[krisnowicki]

I am going to run my rebuilt longblock engine break in tonight. I will start it and warm it up on the stand then shut it down. I will then check all the fluids and what not. At this point I have a quick question.
1. I have set the timing as close as I can with out it running should i set the timing now ( to 8deg tdc) after the first run which require idling?
2. what about idle carb adjustments? I rebuilt it and have it set to standard settings.

 

[Apollo75]

Re: Break in question

It is not that critical

If the engine bearings, cam lobes, rocker pivot points, has a good coat of assembly lube and the other parts like timing chain and cylinder walls have a good coat of oil ---> start it and set the timing. If there is a new cam, run it up to 1500 and let it run for 15-minutes or so. Then set you idle speed and mixture etc.,

The cylinders have a cross hatch pattern hopefully and they will do the work of getting the rings to seat if the cylinder bore is round.

Good Luck

OFM

 

[Apollo75]

Re: Break in question

We all hear about break-in oils --- here is a little information --- I won't write a book

This information is widely known by most racers

"A flat-tappet lifter's design is notable because the portion of the lifter (or tappet) that contacts the camshaft is relatively flat and solid. It is designed to slide up and down the cam lobe, hopefully with a thin film of oil separating the lifter from the cam."

"There are different types of friction inside an engine," explains Mark Ferner, Quaker State's team leader for research and development. "For instance, the journal bearings. As long as there is a good film of oil between the shaft and the bearing, the shaft should ride on the film of oil and never contact the bearing while the engine is running. So all the engine really sees is the viscosity of the oil.

"For years, everybody [manufacturing motor oils] used a particular type of antiwear additive that everybody refers to as 'zinc' [to protect flat-tappet cams and lifters]. It's actually a longer chemical name, and there are different variations of the molecules, but it was all basically the same. [The other elements] in there are sulfur and phosphorus, typically. Those two additives react with the camshaft's iron surface and create a sacrificial chemical coating that is strong enough to keep the parts separated."

Competition Cams has done a lot of research on the effect different oils have on its products, and one solution the company found may surprise you. According to Comp, "Because of the more severe loads in diesel applications, many of the better diesel-use motor oils have high-pressure friction inhibitors as good or better than any of the previous automotive oils. The current API ratings to look for are CI-4 Plus, CI-4, and CF-4. Oils that meet these standards should be recommended at least through the flat-tappet break-in period along with Comp Cams' Pro Cam Lube applied to the cam and lifter and Comp Cams' Camshaft Break-In Lube oil additive."

Some of the diesel oils that meet these standards are: Castrol Tection Extra SAE 15W-40, Chevron Delo 400 Multigrade SAE 15W-40, Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40, and Shell Rotella T Multigrade SAE 15W-40."

Full Article: http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/scrp_0702_camshaft_break_in/index.html

OFM

 

[wca_tim]

Re: Break in question

Good advice overall, but I think the information in the linked article may be a little dated. My understanding is that under pressure from epa, even the diesel oils (even rotella t, one of the last holdouts) have dramatically dropped the zddp (zinc) additive (when the zinc makes it into the combustion gas stream it will eventually poison the catalytic converter decreasing it's effectiveness and eventually lead to complete failure of the catalytic converter - not a concern to us (yet), but important...

On the initial break in you're fine because you're running break in lube. Since zinc levels dropped in rotella, I run either lucas zinc additive (because it's now widely available in the main autoparts chains), or one of several others with rotella or even auto grade synthetics now - especially for a "young" engine. the alternative is to run racing grade oils like mobile one vtwin, redline, amsoil and a some others. Not nearly as convenient. You might get away without doing it - the risk goes up with increased spring pressure (ie for high lift cams)

what we're worried about is anti-scuff protection for the grey iron contact between lifters and cam lobes. oil without the high pressure additives like zinc doesn't have enough - especially for higher spring pressures used with a camshaft much over stock lift. once the cam and lifters are well worn in, the danger of flattening lobes goes down somewhat, but is a lot more common now than it used to be. in part from oil formulation changes in most product lines and also in part because of some quality control issues in lifter manufacture (there was a "hole" in supply and some substandard products were integrated into almost everyone's supply chain. those are still out there. presumably fine, but a little more susceptible to grinding lobes off - especially if the insufficient lubrication is used.)

on initial start-up, what apollo said is dead on. get your timing good enough that it'll run 2000 or 2500 rpms without detonating and as long as your fuel mixture isn't absurdly lean, don't sweat getting the timing and other stuff dead on until after you break the cam in right. I was taught to vary rpms between 1500 and 2500 for at least 20 minutes, better to 30 to keep a good supply of oil on the lobes and lifters for the initial run in. it is helpful to have someone else around to be checking for water and oil leaks while doing this. Then set the timing, dump the oil and put it the rest of the way together so you're ready to hit the water...

Almost nothing more exciting to me than firing up a fresh engine, kinda scary sometimes (for some reason I never get over that "did I do everything right???" nagging doubt thing, but it always seems to work out fine), but exciting and fun. enjoy it!

 

[Apollo75]

Re: Break in question

Nice info -- WCA

Yeah, the article is dated, I'm dated, and flat tappet cams are dated

Hard to keep up now days. I just hope those in the know add easy to find additives and break-in oils to the thread.

OFM

 

[jtybt]

Re: Break in question

The sad part is that the EPA now dictates every almost every step in the production of petroleum products to get their ratings/certifications.

Only a couple diesel companies offer diesel oil with sufficient ZDDP levels for their heavy(off road) equipment.

There just wasn't enuff incentive/reasons for oil companies to provide 'special oils' when most auto engines now have roller cams.

I am using ZDDP Plus(additive) during my break-in and probably for the rest of it's life as the additive with diesel oil comes to about $20-$22 for oil change and is cheaper than synthetics.

 

[Jello Shot]

Re: Break in question

Are you suggesting to use diesel grade/type oils for marine use?

 

[Apollo75]

Re: Break in question

We are just giving information

Yes, the article suggests use for cam break-in due to the higher amount of anti-wear additives in diesel oil.

Many people do use the Diesel oils for marine use.


OFM

 

[wca_tim]

Re: Break in question

diesel oils ar eformulated with a much more robust additive package - they'll carry more soot and partuculate by far. the ones like rotella and a couple of others still have more antiscuff additive than any auto oils, but not enough.

mobile one vtwin and one of their racing syntetics have plenty, as does amsoil, redline and other hgher end "racing" (not for street use) oils.

 

[Apollo75]

Re: Break in question

Seems the Diesel and Racing motor oils with an additive is still the recommended way to go during break-in. Since we do not have catalytic converters --- protection with ZDDP seems the right way to go.

Dated material :

"#1 Castrol GTX 20W-50 is still good for our cars after break-in! 10W-40, 10W-30 and other grades are NOT good. Absolute NOT GOOD for any oil (Any Brand) that is marked ?Energy Conserving? in the API ?Donut? on the bottle, these oils are so low with ZDDP or other additives that they will destroy our cams. Virtually all ?Diesel? rated oils are acceptable.

#2 Castrol HD 30 is a very good oil for break-in of new motors. This oil has one of the largest concentrations of ZDDP and Moly to conserve our cams and tappets.

#3 Only an unusual Castrol Syntec 20W-50 approaches the levels of protection we need when we look to the better synthetic lubricants. We are attempting to get this oil but will be using Redline 10W-40 or 10W-30 as these are lighter weights for better performance, flow volume, less drag and has the additive package we need.

#4 The trend today is to lighter weight oils to decrease drag, which increases mileage. Most of these seem to be the ?Energy Conservation? oils that we cannot use.

#5 Redline oil and others are suggesting a 3,000-mile break-in for new engines! Proper seating of rings, with today?s lubricants is taking that long to properly seal. Shifting to synthetics before that time will just burn a lot of oil and not run as well as hoped.

#6 The ?Energy Conservation? trend was first lead by automakers to increase mileage numbers and secondly because the ZDDP and other chemicals degrade the catalytic converter after extended miles, increasing pollution. We don?t have catalytic converters and the mileage gains are not that significant for most of us. "

Full Article --- dated :

http://www.ttalk.info/Zddp.htm

OFM