Broken Starter Bolt trying to Switch to inline Motor. (Success, Chainsaw sharpening dremel bits helped get starter bolt out.)

[2sos]

Broken Starter Bolt trying to Switch to inline Motor. (Success, Chainsaw sharpening dremel bits helped get starter bolt out.)

Hello all,

I recently puchasd a boat only to find out the second trip in that the start was being helld on by one bolt and the other bolt was sheared off inside the block. I pulled the engine and tried for almost the whole day to get that bolt out to no avail. Gave up when the easy out snapped inside the hold I drilled in the bolt.

This is a 1998 0C 4.3 Mercruiser. The starter that was on there (863007A1) was the staggered bolt kind so I'm assuming my flywheel is 168 tooth. Before I completly have to switch everthing to a new block I thought I could switch to the other style starter with the in line bolt pattern.

I've identified this marine starter (8M0090697) which is in line. Will I need to change my fly wheel/flex plate to the 153 tooth version to use this starter?

Thanks,
Brian

 

[alldodge]

I wouldn't try the straight pattern, not setup right

Suggest finding a motor rebuild place locally and call them, my guess is they can get the bolt out

Many have snapped them off and most wind up using left hand drill bits, but you now have the easy out making it harder

 

[rad1026]

My daughter snapped an engine mount bolt off in the block of her jeep. I tried everything to get that stupid bolt out. Finally wound up snapping an easy out. I searched forums for days and finally found that chainsaw sharpening stones will cut through just about anything. I grabbed a few and used my dremel tool and was able basically grind the easy out enough to drill a straight hole down the middle of the bolt and used a helicoil. Sometimes you might be able to just re-tap the hole. that is the only way I got it fixed. $10 and lots of hours, but it was better than a new block.

 

[Bondo]

Will I need to change my fly wheel/flex plate to the 153 tooth version to use this starter?

Ayuh,..... Welcome Aboard,...... Yes, the starter must follow the flywheel diameter,.....

I'm guessin' that other fitment issues might also pop up in yer plan though,.....

 

[2sos]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. The more I dig into it the more switchting starters and flywheels doesn't seem good. The coupler would also have to change and so on and so forth. Seems to be a snowball effect so I don't think I'll go that rout.

I did try the dremel as well and wend through severl stone bits but that was before the easy out. I could try to get the easy out that way as well.

I also tried left quality drill bits and no dice.

The craziest thing is that I bought the most expensice cobolt bit for use on tool steel, had good pressure on the bit and used cutting lbe and whatever bolt was in there laughed at them.

They do make autamotive starters that will work on the 168 tooth flywheel and use the in line bolt pattern but NOT in a SAEJ1171 spec. That would just be too easy lol.

I even wondered if any starter manufacturer places would marinize one of those starters but again that is very doubtful.

 

[Scott Danforth]

if you had some of the old bolt still sticking out, I would have welded a nut to it before trying to drill it out

on option........ the pertronix polished marine starter uses the straight pattern (starter has two sets of holes)

here is the black powdercoated version https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-s3000b-m

here is the polished https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-s3000p-m

 

[alldodge]

Cobalt won't drill thru an easy out its carbide. Need a carbide bit, but when I mentioned left hand bits that was what was done before the easy out break.

 

[Jcris]

Have you tried heating the bolt with a map gas torch?

 

[Bondo]

Have you tried heating the bolt with a map gas torch?

Ayuh,..... Right idea, wrong approach,.......

With a stick welder, slip a piece of rubber hose over the welding rod tip, 1/8" rod, 1/4" rubber hose,.....
Hook the ground clamp to the block, 'n bury the rubber surrounded weldin' rod into the hole, 'n start a good hot arc on the bolt,.....
After say, 5 or 8 seconds, release the rod from the stinger, 'n quench the hole the bolt is in with water,......
Odds are, you can unscrew the bolt with the weldin' rod,.....

The rubber hose should preserve the hole/ threads,......

 

[Jcris]

As Schultz would say “ very interesting “

 

[tank1949]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. The more I dig into it the more switchting starters and flywheels doesn't seem good. The coupler would also have to change and so on and so forth. Seems to be a snowball effect so I don't think I'll go that rout.

I did try the dremel as well and wend through severl stone bits but that was before the easy out. I could try to get the easy out that way as well.

I also tried left quality drill bits and no dice.

The craziest thing is that I bought the most expensice cobolt bit for use on tool steel, had good pressure on the bit and used cutting lbe and whatever bolt was in there laughed at them.

They do make autamotive starters that will work on the 168 tooth flywheel and use the in line bolt pattern but NOT in a SAEJ1171 spec. That would just be too easy lol.

I even wondered if any starter manufacturer places would marinize one of those starters but again that is very doubtful.

My gut feel is that former owner lost the original tapered starter bolt and used a traditional 3/8 bolt and it allowed water/rust in and eventually snapped under stress. It a wonder that you didn't "eat" flywheel ring gear. You most likely will have to beat out the ez out. I have had some luck beating or shattering them into pieces. Apparently, you didn't drill out enough of the old bolt to be able to use a larger ez out. If you had access to heat, you might had been able to apply it to assist ez out. You are going to have to beat the old ez out in pieces. I did. It took a lot of time too! Then, drill larger hole for larger ez. That's a 1/2 case of beer job.

 

[2sos]

if you had some of the old bolt still sticking out, I would have welded a nut to it before trying to drill it out

on option........ the pertronix polished marine starter uses the straight pattern (starter has two sets of holes)

here is the black powdercoated version https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-s3000b-m

here is the polished https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-s3000p-m

Awesome find on these starters. It should have enough torque to start the engine right? Yeah I wish there would have been enough to weld a nut on.

 

[2sos]

I got it out! Here's the story. oh and Thank you all for your advice!

So I ordered a 153 / 168 tooth starter that used the inline starter bolts. Got it in and bolted it up and the dern thing didn't have enough torque to turn the engine over fast enough. Even when I pulled the spark plugs it would just barely go. Granted this was not a high quality starter and not the one from summit racing Scott recommended.

So After that failure I decided that stupid bolt wasn't going to beat me so I bought several packs of chainsaw sharpening Dremel bits based on rad1026's recommendation (thanks mate). Several hours of slowly going at it with those bits and a punch to break the easy out i finally get the easyout out. It took 6 bits. I kept going at it and noticed more metal pieces falling out. Then I realized, whoever tried before me had broken a large drill bit out and that is what I have been attacking and not the bolt.

No wonder it was so tough. So there was a broken easy out inside a broken drill bit inside a broken bolt lol. Like Russion nesting dolls.

Another hour or so and I ground that sucker out. After that, a few thin walled bolt shell finally came out. Most of the threads, maybe 70%, are actually in tact. I'm going to run a bottoming tap to clean up the threads on Monday but I suspect I'll still need to drill it out so I can install a 3/8-18 Helicoil.

Anyway, I would NOT like to do that process again, It was a pain but worth not having to trash an engine block.

In regards to the mini inline starters recommended above, has anyone ever tried them with success?

Thanks again friends

 

[Scott Danforth]

Awesome find on these starters. It should have enough torque to start the engine right? Yeah I wish there would have been enough to weld a nut on.

it starts a big block with ease.....

 

[alldodge]

In regards to the mini inline starters recommended above, has anyone ever tried them with success?

Have one on my 530HP 509 and it spins it much faster then the original

 

[2sos]

Have one on my 530HP 509 and it spins it much faster then the original

I guess the one I purchased was just a bad low quality version. It was just $100 instead of closer to $300.

 

[gm280]

As many broken off bolt videos that I have seen, and even when easy-outs were snapped off in the hole, I did see ONE video where the mechanic/machinist used a special tool to remove easy-outs. It looked more like a pronged fork then anything else. And it slide down the relief areas in the easy-out and allowed a right-hand turn to back the broken easy-out out. I don't know what it was called or who makes them, but it did work. I didn't even know such a tool was made for broken easy-out removals.

Glad you worked yours out. A few hours is a heck of a lot cheaper then the hours involved to replace a block. JMHO

 

[rad1026]

So glad you got that thing out! Yeah, I had plenty of hours in to that project but my daughter is still driving that old Jeep. So you are going back with the original offset bolt pattern right? I've had really good luck with ARCO Marine.

Think this one might do it if you are interested.

https://arcomarine.com/collections/...oem-premium-replacement-inboard-starter-30470

 

[2sos]

So glad you got that thing out! Yeah, I had plenty of hours in to that project but my daughter is still driving that old Jeep. So you are going back with the original offset bolt pattern right? I've had really good luck with ARCO Marine.

Think this one might do it if you are interested.

https://arcomarine.com/collections/...oem-premium-replacement-inboard-starter-30470

Thanks again for the recommendation. Those things are a lot harder than the typical dremel ceramic bits. Yeah I'm going back with the standard offest one. I had actually just purchased an OEM starter that I hadn't taken back yet. Thanks for the recommendation on the arcomarine though. Hopefully this one lasts a while. The starter on the boat is a pain to change. Just enough room toget in there but no more lol.

 

[2sos]

FYI to all,

Thanks for your help and lsitening to me gripe. I drilled it out and retapped it for a 3/8-16 Helicoil. So it's back to all good. Now to get the engine back in and the outdrive back on.

Anyone have any suggestios on things I should do while I have the engine out? I went ahead and changed oil and filter just because it is so much easier. I also changed the trim limit switch and sender since i had the outdrive off. I thought that would be difficult but it only took about an hour and I did not have to mess with the bellows or use/make special tools.

Just took the gimbal hinge pins out and that allows me direct access to the bolt a plate holding the tri wires and gromets in place.