Building a boat from scratch, but cant decide on what boat

[GO OVRIT]

Re: Building a boat from scratch, but cant decide on what boat

This is one of my favorite designs. http://bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=CS23 They have plans for a 25 also. You get plenty of room to fish all the way around the boat, and you can have a v'berth to get out of the weather. Its a great design for rough water too.

500 miles on 40 gallons would be nice, but doesn't sound very realistic on a 20+ footer able to take rough water and not be scary slow. My 24 burns closer to 80 gallons going 40 miles out, troll for 4-5 hours and 40 miles back in. Thats with a cruise speed of around 22-23 knots. I know diesels would be more effiecient, but the initial cost is pretty high.

 

[Calhere]

Re: Building a boat from scratch, but cant decide on what boat

I actually got those specs off of study plans for the Devlin Surf Scooter on the 105 HP Volvo Penta 22 Series. I'm sure it wont be exactly that but would have to be somewhere close on the take side of things.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Building a boat from scratch, but cant decide on what boat

Well, I'm planning on building a variant of a Bateau C19 this winter.

I like the Bateau (Jacques Mertens) designs because they're strong, lightweight, and designed for amateurs to build. Plus there's a really good community on line that helps you with build problems. Like this board, except for building Bateau boats.

As far as what you want... consider that the tendency with most people getting a custom boat is to design in everything they want in a boat. I sure am. But if this is your first scratch build, it's going to be hard to build anyway, even without a ton of custom mods and the kitchen sink thrown in. Consider building it to the exact plan you get, then modify it after.

For what you list in your first post, you are going to need a pretty big boat. You just can't fit all that in a 20 footer. A 30 or 40, maybe. But that's a big boat to build, and won't be easy to handle by yourself.

Where are you going to run charters? If you have a commercial captain's license you already know the requirements, but if you don't.... pretty much you're allowed to have up to 6 people on any non documented (documented as in Coast Guard documentation) boat if you have a commercial license. Even if you have a 60 footer, you can't have more unless the boat is documented.

To get a documented boat (specifically what's called a COI, or certificate of inspection) your boat has to have a number of tests done, plus it must be inspected while it's being built, and photo documented. You have to arrange beforehand with the Coast Guard to get all that done. The tests (mostly stability tests) cost in the tens of thousands of dollars to perform, and must be done on an exemplar of the model boat you're using or the boat itself.

So you see where this is going... I guarantee NO home built boat plans set has been documented this way... you're going to have to build the boat, pay for inspections, photo document, pay for testing, and pay the fees to get the paperwork done if you want to carry more than 6 people. I'm guessing you won't be doing that.

Soooo... probably you want to carry just a few folks out out. That's good, just make sure you get your commercial license first.

I'd suggest you decide what you want to do with the boat in the next few years... if you're going to charter, build a nice charter boat... 40 feet will hold 6 people nicely, have space for livewells and fresh/black water, a full head, small kitchen, etc. People paying for fishing or whatever want a nice boat. It's still going to cost the world to build, but you'll have a very high quality, exactly what you want boat at the end. Be aware you'll still have trouble getting insurance for a charter boat that you built yourself, though.

If you just want your own perfect boat, I'd suggest a design in the 20-25 foot range... that'd be big enough for a cuddy cabin or similar, with a bunk, porta pottie, and maybe a 20 gallon freshwater tank.

One outboard is fine, consider two if you want redundancy... it's ok to give up, go home and fix a broken engine if you're going out yourself, but paying customers are less understanding.

Wrapping up.. I'd suggest you pick a design you'd like to use now, then buy plans and see what you can do with it design wise. You'll want to lay out your bunks, tank space, fuel tank, etc. before you start to build.

Erik

 

[Calhere]

Re: Building a boat from scratch, but cant decide on what boat

I would like to float this idea out to you; Aluminum Boat.

Light weight and strong, much more "trailer-able" than any fiberglass of the same size.You can build in the cold or warm. No resin stench. You dont have to build a mold (if you are going that way...) and the strength cant be beat.

You could also resale an aluminum a lot easier that a fiberglass. Aluminum will take a pounding and not fail in all temperatures.

The more I look at it, the more likely I will be to build an aluminum boat from scratch.

Whatever you choose to do; good luck and I look forward to seeing lots of pictures!!!

**EDIT**
Check these designs out; http://www.custom-aluminum-boats.com/Small-boat-design.html

Here is my problem with the aluminum boats, I don't have the skill or the tools to feel safe with the completed project. I have meat experience but it was all steel and what not minor MIG welding experience and no TIG experience, MIG and TIG welders are probably the most efficient for aluminum. However if I stick with Stitch and glue I have all of the tools needed as well as a large wealth of knowledge and experience on those tools

 

[Calhere]

Re: Building a boat from scratch, but cant decide on what boat

Well, I'm planning on building a variant of a Bateau C19 this winter.

I like the Bateau (Jacques Mertens) designs because they're strong, lightweight, and designed for amateurs to build. Plus there's a really good community on line that helps you with build problems. Like this board, except for building Bateau boats.

As far as what you want... consider that the tendency with most people getting a custom boat is to design in everything they want in a boat. I sure am. But if this is your first scratch build, it's going to be hard to build anyway, even without a ton of custom mods and the kitchen sink thrown in. Consider building it to the exact plan you get, then modify it after.

For what you list in your first post, you are going to need a pretty big boat. You just can't fit all that in a 20 footer. A 30 or 40, maybe. But that's a big boat to build, and won't be easy to handle by yourself.

Where are you going to run charters? If you have a commercial captain's license you already know the requirements, but if you don't.... pretty much you're allowed to have up to 6 people on any non documented (documented as in Coast Guard documentation) boat if you have a commercial license. Even if you have a 60 footer, you can't have more unless the boat is documented.

To get a documented boat (specifically what's called a COI, or certificate of inspection) your boat has to have a number of tests done, plus it must be inspected while it's being built, and photo documented. You have to arrange beforehand with the Coast Guard to get all that done. The tests (mostly stability tests) cost in the tens of thousands of dollars to perform, and must be done on an exemplar of the model boat you're using or the boat itself.

So you see where this is going... I guarantee NO home built boat plans set has been documented this way... you're going to have to build the boat, pay for inspections, photo document, pay for testing, and pay the fees to get the paperwork done if you want to carry more than 6 people. I'm guessing you won't be doing that.

Soooo... probably you want to carry just a few folks out out. That's good, just make sure you get your commercial license first.

I'd suggest you decide what you want to do with the boat in the next few years... if you're going to charter, build a nice charter boat... 40 feet will hold 6 people nicely, have space for livewells and fresh/black water, a full head, small kitchen, etc. People paying for fishing or whatever want a nice boat. It's still going to cost the world to build, but you'll have a very high quality, exactly what you want boat at the end. Be aware you'll still have trouble getting insurance for a charter boat that you built yourself, though.

If you just want your own perfect boat, I'd suggest a design in the 20-25 foot range... that'd be big enough for a cuddy cabin or similar, with a bunk, porta pottie, and maybe a 20 gallon freshwater tank.

One outboard is fine, consider two if you want redundancy... it's ok to give up, go home and fix a broken engine if you're going out yourself, but paying customers are less understanding.

Wrapping up.. I'd suggest you pick a design you'd like to use now, then buy plans and see what you can do with it design wise. You'll want to lay out your bunks, tank space, fuel tank, etc. before you start to build.

Erik

With the help of everyone here and around a year of research (as this has been on my mind for quite awhile) I have several plans picked out ranging from 23' to 40' I have also contacted the coastguard about documenting the boat and like you said way to expensive. For insurance reasons (I have already got 3 quotes) I will be keeping the passengers under 5 even though with a 6 pack I can legally carry 6, As stated in my post earlier I'm planing on working out of the SF Bay (off the same pier as the Alcatraz ferry uses Business plan kicking in.) Had not really thought about the dual engine whether I go in or out...so that is definitely something I need to look at.

 

[Don S]

Re: Building a boat from scratch, but cant decide on what boat

http://www.glen-l.com/

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Building a boat from scratch, but cant decide on what boat

With the help of everyone here and around a year of research (as this has been on my mind for quite awhile) I have several plans picked out ranging from 23' to 40' I have also contacted the coastguard about documenting the boat and like you said way to expensive. For insurance reasons (I have already got 3 quotes) I will be keeping the passengers under 5 even though with a 6 pack I can legally carry 6, As stated in my post earlier I'm planing on working out of the SF Bay (off the same pier as the Alcatraz ferry uses Business plan kicking in.) Had not really thought about the dual engine whether I go in or out...so that is definitely something I need to look at.

For customers in the boat for any length of time you'll probably want to go larger, but that's up to you. I'd suggest you consider building the larger boats in steel and the smaller ones in fiberglass. As I've said I like the Bateau designs for simple building, and for the larger ones, I did some pretty extensive research into the Bruce Roberts designs.

If you check out his site, he sells plans, kits, and CNC cutting files, which make building a steel boat much, much easier. You can basically take the CNC files to a local steel shop and have them cut parts and deliver locally, saving a ton on shipping. Or they do sell a complete weld together kit for most of the designs.

Whatever you pick, I strongly recommend you choose your hull shape first based on your expected operating conditions, then features second.

This board has been mostly boat rebuilding and restoration, but I'm hoping it gets some more scratch building stories

Erik

 

[Calhere]

Re: Building a boat from scratch, but cant decide on what boat

How about completely scratch starting with the designing of the boat?

What I have decided on there were 4 boats total I liked from various websites In my search I ran across a form similar to this one for marine engineers and I have found various boat design software, I'm thinking of designing my own with the guidance of the Marine engineers from that form planing on going 30' - 40' walk around deck plan as far as material I'm still not so confident in my metal skills but I am thinking that maybe I could wrap the hull in 1/8 alum sheeting? Not really sure. Once I get things under way and what not I'll start a new thread, and I know its unconventional but I will gladly give my plans away for free in a PDF version. As that wont cost me anything.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Building a boat from scratch, but cant decide on what boat

Sounds really cool, and really a lot of work

I'd suggest if you're going to design your own you won't need to think about wrapping it up in sheeting. Once you get into design and calculating the scantlings you'll know whether the hull will be tough enough for you in the material you've chosen, either glass or aluminum or steel.

Sounds very, very cool. Do keep us informed.

Erik

 

[kaferhaus]

Re: Building a boat from scratch, but cant decide on what boat

Not to rain on any parades but I think you're not going about this in a logical or economical fashion.

One poster mentioned buying a existing hull and going from there, another buying a "project boat" and going from there.

Both of those are much better options than building your own boat for the purpose that you've stated from both economics and liability issues.

I've built several boats over the past 30yrs and I can tell you that it's back breaking work, way more expensive than you ever imagine it to be and will take 2-3 times longer to complete than you think.

Stitch and glue is fine for very small boats that you'd build for your own recreational use.

One off fiberglass will take longer, cost more and be less mistake friendly...mistakes are very hard to fix.

Wood construction is easier than fiberglass but comes with it's own issues.

Steel is easy, easy to repair mistakes, super strong. but it's very heavy and comes with it's own maintenance issues.

Aluminum is easy, light weight few maintenance issues other than electrolysis.

You'll not be able to get any of these build it yourself boats documented or likely insured for commercial use.

and most importantly, trying to run a "fishing charter" business from 2 hours away with what you've described so far as a very lightly powered smallish slow boat... is not a recipe for success.

Also you may want to check on the qualifications of the other charter skippers in that area.... do you have the local knowledge that they do? Do you have a reputation as a guy who can put people on fish? Who are you gonna hire to tend to these folks while you're out? Make the sandwiches, gaff the fish, fix rigging etc.?

Charter customers don't want to spend time "making way" out to a fishing spot or even more so making way back to the dock. They want to get out there in comfort quickly, fish and get back. They're paying for a service, not just a boat ride.

Things are different in spots around the country... here in the deep south where fishing is pretty much great year round charter boat operators are competing fiercely for customers. Reputation and equipment is what separates the successful from the wanna bees. I promise you that if a group of guys showed up at the dock after booking a charter and saw a single engine boat less than maybe 30ft long that didn't look accomodationg they'd get right back in their car and leave.

Now if you want to specialize in something that a small boat is good for then it's gonna be flats fishing or something where you only take 1 or 2 guys.

Even then you need a fast boat. these little 30-40hp diesels are out.

Nothing wrong with dreaming but be realistic. Just because you have a boat doesn't mean you'll ever earn a dime. And nothing wrong with building your own boat for recreational use. Just don't get the idea that you're going to realistically build it that much cheaper than buying a new one and it'll cost you much more than buying a used one.

And some day you'll want to part with it....the re-sale value on a home built boat is just horrible and I don't care how well you built it.

Live your dream man.... but do it smart not with your heart. It'll be much less painfull and much more rewarding.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Building a boat from scratch, but cant decide on what boat

I think kaferhaus has some very good advice. If you want to build a custom boat to go fishing, then go build a boat. If you want to operate a charter service, then buy a fishing boat and start a charter service. But building a boat to start a charter service is reducing the chances of success considerably. In fact, the completion rate on home built boats is not very high. Thats why there are always half built boats for sale at the boat building forums. Also, if you build a 30 foot boat, it will take years. Often 5 or 6 years before the boat is complete. Spend some more time reading the accounts of people who built boats.