busted by marine patrol

[KaGee]

USCG rules of the road...

The overtaking situation. When one vessel is overtaking another vessel from any direction two or more points abaft the other vessel’s beam, that vessel is an overtaking vessel and is required to keep clear of
the other vessel. Any person operating a vessel shall not follow another vessel more closely than is reasonable and prudent and shall have regard for prevailing conditions so as to not create a risk of collision. The overtaking vessel should indicate the intended side on which it desires to pass and wait until the overtaken vessel responds with a similar signal
before passing. Violation of any of the above rules of the road is an infraction.

The rule is subjective, in any case if the officer thought you were too close, you are screwed. Go wider the next time.

 

[ZmOz]

Re: busted by marine patrol

Sounds like you're gonna have to take it to court. When you're there, ask the officer exactly how far you were from the other vessel, and how he knows this. (did he measure?) Then ask exactly how far one needs leave when overtaking another vessel. He'll either have all the answers and you'll pay the fine, or he'll be squirming and you won't.

 

[KRS]

Re: busted by marine patrol

... or the judge will turn to the officer and ask if you overtook the other vessel in a safe manner and he'll say "No", and you'll have wasted the day in court.

Pay it and learn from the lesson.

 

[ZmOz]

Re: busted by marine patrol

... or the judge will turn to the officer and ask if you overtook the other vessel in a safe manner and he'll say "No",

He must also explain what was unsafe. If the only basis for this ticket was that he was too close, the officer needs to come up with both the distance that he was, and the minimum safe distance. If no minimum safe distance is defined in the law, then the officer has to come up with a good reason why it was unsafe. Innocent until proven guilty remember. Where's the proof? Maybe mad in N.H. is guilty, I don't know, but it doesn't sound like he or the officer knows either.

 

[Boatist]

Re: busted by marine patrol

I do not think I have ever seen a boat cited for passing out here. VERY FEW use any kind of sound signal and if you do likely will not get the proper reply.

However have seen lots of PWC sited for jumping wakes and passing, cutting in front of, ect. California has pass a aditional law for PWC that covers most of the viliations all because that had so many accidents involveing PWCs. All the ones I have seen cited were not operating in a safe manner.

 

[tommays]

Re: busted by marine patrol

That would be fun here with channels that are less than 50 ft wide in many places

Its the most exciteing part of my day when a 34 ft boat passes me 15 ' to startboard and the wave washes over my bow

Tommays

 

[KaGee]

Re: busted by marine patrol

I guess that's why the actual rule is subjective... in the case of a 50 ft channel and a cruiser throwing a wake, that could be interpreted as unsafe... of course whenever you need a cop, they are never around.

 

[rottenray6402]

Re: busted by marine patrol

That cop could have a field day issuing tickets on the St. Lawrence on a busy summer weekend, or the Erie canal!>o

 

[eli_lilly]

Re: busted by marine patrol


What does "two or more points abaft the other vessel’s beam" translate to?

-E

 

[KRS]

Re: busted by marine patrol

I still don't believe the officer will have to define a distance with a number.

When driving in the rain, you can get a speeding ticket even if you are under the max posted limit because you may be driving over the speed considered "safe for the conditions". This example, and the case of the boater's ticket above... are both subjective and it'll probably stick in court.

Again, I don't think you'll win if you go to court.

 

[cobra 3.0]

Re: busted by marine patrol

Did the people in the other boat complain that you passed too close? If not, what's the patrol's beef?

You must be ready to swear that to the best of your ability you were a safe distance from the other boat and that your wake did not put the other boat in danger.

I'd give it a shot in court.

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: busted by marine patrol

What does "two or more points abaft the other vessel’s beam" translate to?

-E

Each point ='s 10 degrees. Your bow lights shine forward and two points abaft the beam, or an arch of 22.5 degrees off the beam of the vessel.

 

[ZmOz]

Re: busted by marine patrol

I still don't believe the officer will have to define a distance with a number.

When driving in the rain, you can get a speeding ticket even if you are under the max posted limit because you may be driving over the speed considered "safe for the conditions". This example, and the case of the boater's ticket above... are both subjective and it'll probably stick in court.

Again, I don't think you'll win if you go to court.

Like I said above, the officer still has to specify exactly what was unsafe, with proof. He can't just say "it was unsafe" and that's the end of it. Whether it's based on distance or anything else doesn't really matter. If it turns out the original poster was being safe, the officer is going to have a hard time explaining himself. If the original poster was doing something that is obviously unsafe, then yes, he's wasting his time in court. If he doesn't think he was doing anything wrong, it's his duty to fight it.

 

[bjcsc]

Re: busted by marine patrol

What does "two or more points abaft the other vessel’s beam" translate to?

-E

It doesn't have anything to do with distance. A point is 11.25 degrees (32 points in a 360 degree compass). If you approach another vessel from two or more points abaft the beam, you are defined as an overtaking vessel and must yield. To visualize this, imagine the vessel being overtaken is travelling due north. If you were to draw an imaginary line abeam of the overtaken vessel, i.e. perpendicular to the hull, i.e. in this example from west to east or from 270 to 90 degrees, and you are approaching from within two or more points, 22.5 degrees or more behind that line, meaning your bearing is within 247.5 to 67.5 degrees, you are defined as the overtaking vessel. Generally, at night if you can see the vessel's port or starboard bow light you are not two or more points abaft of their beam (and thus you're in a "crossing" situation), if you can't see it you are (and thus you're in an "overtaking" situation). That's why the lights are designed the way they are.

 

[Buttanic]

Re: busted by marine patrol

Many years ago I got busted by the marine patrol while sking. When I asked him what had I done wrong his reply was "What you did". When I asked for details he wouldn't provide any. I went to court and pled not guilty.
The officer asked to speak to the judge in private and after he did the judge said case dismissed. The officer came up to me later and asked what was it all about. He couldn't remember why he issued the ticket. I guess he just needed to fill his quota for the day.

 

[BrianS.]

Re: busted by marine patrol

The Officer should have been Fined and you reimbursed for your time to appear.

 

[Terry Olson]

Re: busted by marine patrol

The standard for a conviction is "proof beyond a reasonable doubt", which is relatively high, but does not rise to the level of absolute proof that some of you apparently believe must be met.

Many speeding convictions have occurred when the officer was able to demonstrate that through training and experience the cited driver was speeding. It is not necessary that they have a radar reading or any other form of tangible evidence to meet the standard needed for a conviction. The only way to beat this is to demonstrate that the officer does not have sufficient training and experience to form an opinion or is not credible for some reason. If the judge finds the officer has sufficient training and experience and does not find any reason to think they can't be believed they will have met the standard necessary in every court that isn't run by an activist judge.

I'm not saying pay a ticket you don't deserve, but don't get carried away with the idea that if the officer didn't have a protractor and tape measure out when you passed the other boater that they can't prove the case.

Then again, the right judge on the right day might dismiss or find you not guilty - but that's a rarity. A better idea is to attend court and discuss the case with the prosecutor before the case is called. The vast and overwhelming majority of cases are settled rather than tried. The prosecutor doesn't want to try the case any more than you do so you have some leverage. I'd ask that the case be "continued for dismissal" which means that if you do not have any similar violations within a set period of time, usually a year, the ticket will be dismissed. You'll have to pay court fees, but those fees are built into the fine already so you're probably going to pay them one way or another and they're much less than the full fine.

 

[bamadave]

Re: busted by marine patrol

It would depend on the court cost if I fought or not. The cost of the fine if mailed vs. fighting and losing and paying court cost could be 2 or 3 times the mail in cost.
Even if you win, the marine patrol will stay on your a$$ forever. Not taking sides with the cop, but if he thought you were endangering lives, Just maybe he was right. If not, price of playing. If you think you were perfectly innocent, fight, but be prepared to pay anyway.

 

[ruf1967]

Re: busted by marine patrol

Another factor to consider is how the officer articulates his probable cause affidavit, on the back of the ticket he retained for the court. The officer has probably issued hundreds of similar tickets, spent many hours in court (equals o.t. for him) and more than likely can articulate a specific reason why your overtaking of the vessel was unsafe. Terry gives good advice. Talk to the prosecutor beforehand, settle on a plea bargain and get your boat back in the water. Or, pay the ticket and get your boat in the water, winter will creep up on you sooner than you think.

 

[roncopas]

Re: busted by marine patrol

It is possible that mad in NH may have been committing unsafe acts all day or some 1 may have complained to the marine patrol (Just a Thought) sometimes people get a little out of hand then they get Busted then they say all I know is I don’t do it and I don’t know who did or I don’t know what you mean
That may not be the case here but then again