Carb rebuild question/problem

[hertel11]

Took off both carbs and replaced gaskets, float, needle valve, and seat. 2005 40hp Johnson model J40PLSOC Engine started right up initially but my muffs didn't fit good (they are new) so I turned off and filled a bucket of water to run in. Once water bucket was filled motor would not start. Did not even sputter or attempt to turn over. I'm pretty sure I cleaned the carbs well and replaced everything just like it was before.. The reason I wanted to clean the carbs is because fuel leaked out the top of my bottom carb previously even when just squeezing the primer bulb. That no longer happens after cleaning them. Now it just won't start or turn over, I ordered new spark plugs but I don't know if that is the issue. Any ideas what it might be or what my next move should be?

 

[boobie]

If it won't turn over check your battery and all the connections. May need to have the battery load tested.

 

[hertel11]

I mean the flywheel spins and everything so shouldn't that mean the battery is ok? I had it running just one week ago.. The engine just won't turn over now..

 

[boobie]

Then what's causing it now ????

 

[hertel11]

That is the question..? I will check battery tomorrow but I think it is fine. I just put new floats and needle valves in both carbs today and made sure they were level. Is it possible to tighten screws too tight squeezing the gasket too hard and limiting flow of gas especially on the top plastic piece? I think I will have to end up taking carbs apart again but I was hoping to avoid that.

 

[82ndairborne]

Ok confused here, when you try to start it, does the flywheel spin?

 

[hertel11]

Yes. The flywheel spins.

 

[ondarvr]

Turning over means the flywheel is spinning, starting is the next step, it's just easier if everyone uses the same terms to describe what's gong on to get an accurate answer.

 

[hertel11]

Ok. The flywheel spins but the motor does not start or even sputter..

 

[82ndairborne]

Ok, then check for spark, you can use a spark tester or if you don't have one pull a spark plug and touch it to the engine while someone cranks it and see if you have spark, fyi use insulated pliers to hold it.

 

[oldboat1]

Yup. Sounds like you mean the engine spins OK but won't fire -- usually refer to that as "cranking." So if it's cranking fast but not starting, would need to know that it has compression and spark...and fuel.

Fuel has to be in the right proportion. Did you change or adjust the idle mixture needle(s) when you cleaned the carbs?

 

[hertel11]

I did not change or adjust any needles while changing the carbs but I must admit I don't exactly know where the idle needle is, I'm still learning. I am confident I cleaned the carbs appropriately though because I have done it before on other ouboards. I'm hoping new spark plugs will fix the issue, if not it is back to the beginning and taking apart the carbs again I suppose.. Unless there are better ideas? I bought the boat used before last season so I have no idea if the spark plugs have ever been changed or what maintenance has been done before I purchased it. I recently replaced water pump and gearcase oil and both were successful.

 

[hertel11]

Looked up where the slow speed needles are. I did not take out or adjust these screws during the carb rebuild. Both carbs appeared clean upon removal anyway but I went ahead and soaked in berryman and cleaned with gumout and compressed air anyway.

 

[Silvertip]

If you didn't remove needles then you didn't do a proper cleaning. Not saying thats the no start problem. Sure the shifter is in neutral and kill switch lanyard is in place?

 

[jimmbo]

Did you remember to use the enricher system while cranking the engine, and raise the throttle/start up lever?

 

[hertel11]

Yes. I used enricher and had throttle in start position. It started twice on muffs but each time I turned it off shortly after starting (about 5-10 seconds) because my new muffs weren't allowing water to flow out the water exit hose. Once I got a bucket filled and under the engine then it would not start...

 

[hertel11]

If you didn't remove needles then you didn't do a proper cleaning. Not saying thats the no start problem. Sure the shifter is in neutral and kill switch lanyard is in place?

Ok, well as I said I'm pretty much new at all of this and just trying to learn. I watched a few instructional videos and that's how I went about doing the carb cleaning. None of them showed removing the slow speed needles. The shifter was in neutral, the boat came with a lanyard but it has never been on the ignition and it always ran without it, I'm not even sure it fits on properly.

 

[hertel11]

Finally got it to start this afternoon after cranking on it about 10 times. Was acting funny though and had trouble holding a constant rpm at any speed over idle. Would be at 2500 rpm and without ever touching the throttle would jump up to over 6000 rpm. Initially stalled even at idle a couple times but after running a while I let it idle with no problems for about 15 min. The inability to hold a steady rpm worries me though, does anybody have any suggestions on what might cause that? Does this sound like something old gas could cause? I did still have mostly old gas in the tank from last october or so and the boat has been stored outside in Ohio all winter. I always use premium gasoline and a bottle of seafoam.

 

[Silvertip]

Gas from last October is not old gas and is not the reason for the poor operation. Since you removed the carbs, the linkages were disturbed, the internal passages in the carb were not cleaned because you didn't remove the needles, and if all you did was replace the floats and inlet needles, then improper carb cleaning may be part of the cause. Idle mixdture needles adjust idle quality and there is no one exact setting for these. They must be dialed in because each engine will have a different setting that works best. Following carb rebuilds it is necessary to perform a Link&Sync which synchronizes throttle opening with timing advance. This is a long procedure and you need a factory service manual to do this correctly. You also cannot start in the middle of that procedure or you end up chasing your tail. Your starting procedure is suspect as well -- especially cold. 1) squeeze primer bulb until firm. 2) shifter in neutral, 3) fast idle lever raise about 1/2 - 2/3 up, turn key to START while pushing in on the key (activates the primer). 4) when engine fires, lower the fast idle to a more comfortable idle and be ready to bump the key (push it in momentarily) if the engine begins to die. Don't wait until it dies -- push the key in to give it a little extra shot of fuel. Two strokes like lots of fuel when staring them cold. When warm, lower the fast idle lever fully and go boating.

 

[oldboat1]

+1. a lot of good info.

I think there's an inline filter in your system, and it might be a good idea to replace it. (Seafoam can loosen up stuff in the tank, particularly a metal one -- not a big believer in decarb solvents for routine use, but your call.)