carry gun philosophy

chris4x4

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Dec 22, 2007
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Re: carry gun philosophy

Just an FYI. For the most part, lighter/ faster bullits penetrate LESS than slower/ heavier bullits. For that reason, I carry a Glock 26 loaded with 90 grain 1550 fps. Corbon hollow points when at home or out and about in the summer time. At the velocity the round travels, it fragments quickly without over penatration. In the winter months, I carry a Sig. P220 loaded with Corbon, or Hydra-shok 165 grain 1050-1150 fps. I prefer these in the winter as I can more easilly conceal the larger weapon, and as its cold out side and the odds of being attacked by some one wearing a jacket are higher, I prefer a little more penetration and power.
 

jmoorepghpa

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 17, 2006
Messages
114
Re: carry gun philosophy

I suppose after re-reading my original post and the replies I might be able to add a few things here. I keep Glaciers in the .38 for exactly the reason they make them-- to minimize the posibilty of injury or death to innocent bystanders. For the same reason I would not be using a hand cannon for self defense. What I guess I'm really trying to work out is what do you do in a situation where you are confronted with a lunatic in a public setting. There have been serveral instances recently where a shooter has been stoped by someone with a gun before they could turn their shooting spree into the complete massacre they had planned. Basically a private citizen with a gun who was there was able to respond immediately to a very bad situation and save who knows how many lives as well as possibly his/her own. With the increase in such incidents I have found myself concerned enough to spend some time considering such a situation. I like the .38, I shoot it well and am comfortable with it. I think what I'll do is move the paper out a little further at the range and polish up a bit.
 

dave11

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Dec 2, 2007
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1,195
Re: carry gun philosophy

It sounds like your .38 is a fine choice for you. Reasonable stopping power, reliable as a rock, you are comfortable with it, and it is easily concealed. Practice on a regular basis will let you become more proficient and accurate. You have made a good decision.
 

bjcsc

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Re: carry gun philosophy

I think what I'll do is move the paper out a little further at the range and polish up a bit.

Another thing you can do, in addition, is stop aiming - seriously. Some of the best handgun practice you can do is pull,point,shoot - no aiming. One of the things all the crack shot pistol guys don't do is aim. Mix some of that into your practicing and the weapon will become more of an extension of your arm. Eventually, you'll be able to hit what you're looking at...
 

SgtMaj

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Re: carry gun philosophy

You mean like Detroit, Chicago, L.A. and other gun crime and murder free cities just like it !!!!!
Compare and I suggest you watch the Bowling for Columbine movie / documentary and get back to us.

Uh, yeah, exactly like those places. All of those places you listed have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the US. So I have to assume you didn't understand what I posted. So I suggest you re-read it.

By the way, none of those kids who shot up columbine legally owned a firearm, and it only would have taken one legally carrying person to have ended their killing spree much earlier with much less loss of life, but carrying firearms on the campus at columbine was prohibited. So I'm confused, were you trying to disprove my point or side with me?

SgtMaj
 

SgtMaj

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Re: carry gun philosophy

Another thing you can do, in addition, is stop aiming - seriously. Some of the best handgun practice you can do is pull,point,shoot - no aiming. One of the things all the crack shot pistol guys don't do is aim. Mix some of that into your practicing and the weapon will become more of an extension of your arm. Eventually, you'll be able to hit what you're looking at...

Good point, and in a real life situation where you would need to use your firearm, odds are you won't have time to aim.
 

Bigprairie1

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Jun 13, 2007
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Re: carry gun philosophy

I should not have really jumped in on this thread should I ????

....naah, jump right in! All true and real believers in Freedom of Speech would not want it any other way....right?
BP;);)
 

kenmyfam

Supreme Mariner
Joined
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Re: carry gun philosophy

Uh, yeah, exactly like those places. All of those places you listed have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the US. So I have to assume you didn't understand what I posted. So I suggest you re-read it.

By the way, none of those kids who shot up columbine legally owned a firearm, and it only would have taken one legally carrying person to have ended their killing spree much earlier with much less loss of life, but carrying firearms on the campus at columbine was prohibited. So I'm confused, were you trying to disprove my point or side with me?

SgtMaj

Just saying my feelings. Dont think I could live somewhere where there were multiple murders on a daily basis. Sad that there are so many guns available illegaly to anyone who has the money to buy one or steal one from an unsecured source. Sad to see that schoolchildren have to go through airport like screening just to be educated. It also only takes one phsycotic person that is legally carrying to get their fuse lit and who knows from there. If carrying firearms at Columbine was prohibited how did they get in with them.
My ideal would be a total gun carrying ban in public places and a ban on concealed weapons anywhere. Compare murder rates in countries that allow guns and countries that dont.
Remeber this is just my opinion. I respect all other opinions as well.
 

treedancer

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Re: carry gun philosophy

My job takes me at times into some very harry area’s, I currently carry a Glock G17, prior to the Clock it was a Smith & Wesson Model 10, carried that .38 special, for years before I bought the Glock. The Glock is good, but that old S&W, has a special place in my heart. Never had to use either one, had to wave the old S&W, in a menacing manner once though. :eek:
 

chris4x4

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Dec 22, 2007
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Re: carry gun philosophy

Just saying my feelings. Dont think I could live somewhere where there were multiple murders on a daily basis. Sad that there are so many guns available illegaly to anyone who has the money to buy one or steal one from an unsecured source. Sad to see that schoolchildren have to go through airport like screening just to be educated. It also only takes one phsycotic person that is legally carrying to get their fuse lit and who knows from there. If carrying firearms at Columbine was prohibited how did they get in with them.
My ideal would be a total gun carrying ban in public places and a ban on concealed weapons anywhere. Compare murder rates in countries that allow guns and countries that dont.
Remeber this is just my opinion. I respect all other opinions as well.

Here in AZ. we past a CCW law, and crime dropped. Many places that have outlawed weapons have the most violent crimes. Britan, Korea, remember Hitler? If Canada has lower crime rates due to lack of guns, Im not buying it. How many people get attacked by people with hammers? Take guns away from the people, and only the criminals will have them. Britan has a ban on guns, and yet criminals have them. If a criminal is going to comit a crime, they will feel more comfortable if they know the puplic is unarmed. I was home when a burglary was attempted. They kicked my door in only to find themselves staring down the business end of my .357. They fled, I chased them while on the phone with 911 giveing them a description of the guy. They were caught. Who knows what would have happened if I was unarmed? Or to my fammilly?
 

SuperNova

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Mar 16, 2007
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Re: carry gun philosophy

Ken, I appreciate your opinion, but you really are very ill-informed and your opinion seems to be based in large part on a very politically motivated work of mostly fiction. If you would like to see some very real facts from both sides of the fence, I suggest you go to your local library and check out any book written by a man named Massad F. Ayoob. He is a well known and widely recognized authority on concealed weapons and self-defense and knows both sides of the gun arguement and will present the pros and cons in a straight forward style.

In one breath you state that guns should be outlawed. In the next you wonder how somebody got guns into a prohibited area. The answer to both is simple and similiar. It is a widely known and disturbing fact that criminals just WON'T obey the law! Terrible, I know, but it is the truth. So making laws banning something just don't get it done. It doesn't stop people bent on a particular course of action.

Having said that, let me ask you a question; Have you ever seen a Cop actually stop a crime (other than on T.V.)? Only very rarely, if at all. Police are reactive--not pro-active; they get involved after a crime has been committed, and yes, they may catch the actual criminal..but that is small consolation to the victim of a brutal assault or murder.

In America, our Bill of Rights, written into our Constitution, the very principals this Great Country was founded upon, gives EVERY American the right and the responsibility to protect himself as he sees fit. If you choose to rely on the Police to protect you and you believe laws are a good enough deterrent...well, good for you, you must be very idealistic. But there are other people who choose to be responsible for their own safety and just because you don't, or you live in a country that won't allow you to doesn't give you the right to say nobody should be allowed to protect themselves.

I no more expect you to take my guns away than you would expect me to force you to start carying one.

It's funny when you think about it. Anti-gunners want to force their views and beliefs on everybody else and take everyone's guns away. Pro-gunners just want to be left alone. We don't go around saying everyone should be forced to carry a gun. We don't call people who don't carry guns bad names. And we don't walk around waving our guns in anybody's face. You never read about somebody who is carrying legally doing something stupid. It's always the people who didn't have the right to carry in the first place, and they don't usually have the right because they've already proven they can't be trusted, but guess what, all the laws we already have in place don't deter them, other than to kill themselves when they think they will get caught, so they don't have to go to jail. So if you can figure out how to stop someone who doesn't mind dying...there are a lot of people in Iraq who would like to talk to you.
 

waterinthefuel

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Re: carry gun philosophy

I can't even own guns anymore and I think carrying is great. I used to have a CCW and I carried everywhere.

Maybe ken should think about this...."When you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns."
 

jay_merrill

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Dec 5, 2007
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Re: carry gun philosophy

I usually don't enter these debates because I don't really care who is right or wrong. In fact, I don't think anyone is completely right or wrong. The issue is too complex and there are too many variables.

One example of this is the issue of CCW laws and violent crime rate. We have a CCW law in Louisiana but in New Orleans, it has not detered violent crime. We now have a murder rate, with about 2/3rds of the pre-Katrina population, that is similar or higher to many years in which we had a full population. In this city, whether the average joe is carrying or not is irrelevant to the murder stats because those crimes are very nearly exclusive to the drug trade. The crack dealers are pretty much all carrying and they tend to shoot one another with abandon. And, with a few exceptions, they tend to leave the rest of the population alone.

We also just had a police officer killed with her own weapon while trying to make an arrest. The perp was mentally disturbed and he disarmed her and then emptied her Glock into her. So, in this case, a highly trained person was killed with her own weapon by a person who was not intially armed.

Are these two examples universally applicable to all questions of gun ownership, types of guns to own, restrictive ownership laws, etc.? No, they are not. But they do point out that some of the positions held by a lot of folks don't neccessarily pan out everywhere in the nation.
 

SgtMaj

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Re: carry gun philosophy

Just saying my feelings. Dont think I could live somewhere where there were multiple murders on a daily basis.

I agree, and the places with the least crime, are also the places with the highest legal gun ownership rates.

Sad that there are so many guns available illegaly to anyone who has the money to buy one or steal one from an unsecured source. Sad to see that schoolchildren have to go through airport like screening just to be educated. It also only takes one phsycotic person that is legally carrying to get their fuse lit and who knows from there.

Exactly.

If carrying firearms at Columbine was prohibited how did they get in with them.

Simple, they walked right in, because they obviously weren't there to follow the law, and no one was there with a firearm to stop them. Even if they had set off a metal detector, that wouldn't have mattered if nobody was there with a firearm to stop them, because they simply would have shot anyone else.

My ideal would be a total gun carrying ban in public places and a ban on concealed weapons anywhere.

If guns never existed, that would be possible. Unfortuneately, since they do, it isn't, because they would simply be smuggled in and used against a then helpless population.

Compare murder rates in countries that allow guns and countries that dont.

I think you would be surprised by the results. Did you know there are a couple of couties in the US that actually require gun ownership as a condition of land ownership within the county? You don't hear much about those counties on the news, because most of them haven't had more than a misdemeanor speeding ticket offense committed in them for deacades.

Remeber this is just my opinion. I respect all other opinions as well.

And I respect your opinion too, though I may not share it exactly. Our end goals are both the same, it is simply our method of getting there that differs.
 

SgtMaj

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Re: carry gun philosophy

I usually don't enter these debates because I don't really care who is right or wrong. In fact, I don't think anyone is completely right or wrong. The issue is too complex and there are too many variables.

One example of this is the issue of CCW laws and violent crime rate. We have a CCW law in Louisiana but in New Orleans, it has not detered violent crime. We now have a murder rate, with about 2/3rds of the pre-Katrina population, that is similar or higher to many years in which we had a full population. In this city, whether the average joe is carrying or not is irrelevant to the murder stats because those crimes are very nearly exclusive to the drug trade. The crack dealers are pretty much all carrying and they tend to shoot one another with abandon. And, with a few exceptions, they tend to leave the rest of the population alone.

We also just had a police officer killed with her own weapon while trying to make an arrest. The perp was mentally disturbed and he disarmed her and then emptied her Glock into her. So, in this case, a highly trained person was killed with her own weapon by a person who was not intially armed.

Are these two examples universally applicable to all questions of gun ownership, types of guns to own, restrictive ownership laws, etc.? No, they are not. But they do point out that some of the positions held by a lot of folks don't neccessarily pan out everywhere in the nation.

I agree that New Orleans is a mess, but it would be a mess with, or without the CCW. Odds are, even without the CCW, 99% of those drug dealers already couldn't legally own a firearm because of prior convictions.

As for the police officer, I believe she was killed because of her reluctance to use deadly force. While I do admit that is an admirable trait in an officer, it also doesn't do much for an officer's life expectancy.
 

kenmyfam

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Re: carry gun philosophy

If guns never existed, that would be possible.

Absolutely, and that is an unachievable ideal unfortunately.






And I respect your opinion too, though I may not share it exactly. Our end goals are both the same, it is simply our method of getting there that differs.


Thank You.

We seem to be both wanting the same outcome but from different angles.
Great discussion !!!!
 

jay_merrill

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Re: carry gun philosophy

I agree that New Orleans is a mess, but it would be a mess with, or without the CCW.

Tht's exactly my point - the impact of the CCW law that was passed here some years ago has been essentailly nil in New Orleans. It has not lowered violent crime so the position that arming citizens reduces violent crime isn't applicable. Would it be a deterent elsewhere? May be yes and maybe no - it just depends on the particular circumstance.

As for the police officer, I believe she was killed because of her reluctance to use deadly force. While I do admit that is an admirable trait in an officer, it also doesn't do much for an officer's life expectancy.

I am not aware if any reluctance on her part to use deadly force. Although the news reports vary on some detail, the generally accepted information seems to be that a struggle began as she was handcuffing him. He apparently pulled away from her and a fierce struggle ensued. She fought him for 7 minutes and, at one point, she managed to get her radio from the ground (it had been taken from her) to make a call for help. Perhaps she should have shot him at that point but I'll reserve judgement because I wasn't there. My point on this one is that a person who is highly trained in handling such situations ended up being shot with her own weapon. If we look at that fact in terms of a civilian carrying, it doesn't take much to see a similar, if not more common, situation occuring. Attacks are not always clear cut and a moment of indecision could very easily end up in the same way. Once again, I am not totally against use of a firearm for self protection. I do, however, disagree with the many attempts I hear in which people try to oversimplify the matter by saying that if we all carried guns, crime would magically disappear.
 

RGrew176

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Mar 20, 2002
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Re: carry gun philosophy

No CCW yet, but do own a Taurus 357 mag for home and sometimes on the boat defense. Fortunately never a need to date to have to use it.
 

SgtMaj

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Re: carry gun philosophy

Tht's exactly my point - the impact of the CCW law that was passed here some years ago has been essentailly nil in New Orleans. It has not lowered violent crime so the position that arming citizens reduces violent crime isn't applicable. Would it be a deterent elsewhere? May be yes and maybe no - it just depends on the particular circumstance.

I see your point, but to be fair, none of the rest of the country is dealing with the aftermath of a horrific natural disaster that rivaled Hiroshima. It will still be years before things completely normalize there again. When that happens, then you can guage the effect of CCW there.


I am not aware if any reluctance on her part to use deadly force. Although the news reports vary on some detail, the generally accepted information seems to be that a struggle began as she was handcuffing him. He apparently pulled away from her and a fierce struggle ensued. She fought him for 7 minutes and, at one point, she managed to get her radio from the ground (it had been taken from her) to make a call for help. Perhaps she should have shot him at that point but I'll reserve judgement because I wasn't there. My point on this one is that a person who is highly trained in handling such situations ended up being shot with her own weapon. If we look at that fact in terms of a civilian carrying, it doesn't take much to see a similar, if not more common, situation occuring. Attacks are not always clear cut and a moment of indecision could very easily end up in the same way. Once again, I am not totally against use of a firearm for self protection. I do, however, disagree with the many attempts I hear in which people try to oversimplify the matter by saying that if we all carried guns, crime would magically disappear.

Crime will never disappear, but a well armed population might just give would-be criminals reason for pause.
 
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