Chambers Share the Walls?

[Loop_Dad]

I have Intex Mariner 4. It has 4 air chambers. I've noticed my third slow air leak this weekend. I went "no problem, I know what to do". Well I was wrong...

I did find a pin hole that I was able to fix as I did before. After done fixing that pin hole, I left the chamber inflated to just verify the fix. The chamber still lost the air pressure after 15 minutes or so. :blue:

I looked for more pin hole somewhere else, but I couldn't find anything. I finally spot the 'hiss' sound, but I do not see any leak anywhere. Now I am suspecting something is leading between that chamber in question and the next chamber.

So my question is, when a boat has multiple chambers, do the share the common walls between the chambers? Or each chambers have their own walls? Or it depends on the boat?

If they do share the wall and air is leading from one chamber to the other, then I could still technically use it. However, I now technically have 3 chamber boat, instead of 4, if you know what I mean.

 

[mrdrh99]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

I would suggest asking intex, also rubberboats.com is really good at answering questions via email.

 

[Loop_Dad]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

I think I found the answer to this question myself. They do share the wall, at least for this boat. I left the chamber in question and the one next to it inflated. A couple of hours later, they are both still hard.

This is good and bad. It is good, because I can still go out fishing the next weekend. It is bad, because this is not something I could have caused it because it is internal.

 

[deejaycee_2000]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

They are not suppose to share .... otherwise there would not be multiple chambers .... and besides if you burst a chamber the rest must keep you afloat ....

 

[Loop_Dad]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

They are not suppose to share .... otherwise there would not be multiple chambers .... and besides if you burst a chamber the rest must keep you afloat ....

That is very logical and I would agree if I didn't see what my Mariner 4 is doing. Maybe it is the short cut of being inexpensive?

 

[lncoop]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

this is not something I could have caused it because it is internal.

I beg to differ. Sounds like you have a blown baffle (wall). Happens all the time, especially with cheap boats. It could be a factory defect, but it could also be the result of incorrect inflation technique. My money's on the latter. As deejaycee said, baffled chambers are intended to be a safety feature. Their purpose is to contain a leak to one chamber thereby limiting the deflation and leaving you with three (in the case of four chambers/two baffles) fully inflated tubes.

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

Definitely seems a bad baffle issue, that's why is a good procedure to inflate all tube sections evenly in small psi increments in a merry go round basis, have seen newbie boaters to near fully inflate starting chamber one. This could cause premature baffle failure specially if they were poorly glued at the factory. Once baffle has failed, will need to go boating with this condition.

Happy Boating

 

[Loop_Dad]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

I beg to differ. Sounds like you have a blown baffle (wall). Happens all the time, especially with cheap boats. It could be a factory defect, but it could also be the result of incorrect inflation technique. My money's on the latter. As deejaycee said, baffled chambers are intended to be a safety feature. Their purpose is to contain a leak to one chamber thereby limiting the deflation and leaving you with three (in the case of four chambers/two baffles) fully inflated tubes.

Ah, I see. I had no idea about blown baffle.

I usually do blow up merry go round basis as Sea Rider sayid, but you know what? When I was looking for this leak, I inflated only one of the chamber. So my attempt to fix might have actually caused other damage. :faint2:

Why the leak stops when I blown up two chambers? Is it possible the baffle of the good chamber is actually covering the hole of the failed baffle?

Do you suggest I use those inner liquid sealant?

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

Liquid sealant is good for sealing pourous or tiny pinholes on tube's fabric, if baffle air leak is big will have no sealing effect whatsoever. To know how big the baffle leak could be, inflate damaged chamber and check how slow or fast the adjacent tube it's inflated. Air leak stops when inflating 2 adjacent chambers because both chambers have achieved same overall pressure.

Happy Boating

 

[deejaycee_2000]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

Did you inflate the chambers in the correct order? Because all the inflatables I have had have a sequence because the baffle needs to push out to a certain direction according to how they installed it .... otherwise it will tear the baffle away from the wall ... i think i might have a pic of how it looks on the inside ..... nope it seems I have misplaced it, but it looks like a huge boob ... haha

 

[lncoop]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

Loop_Dad, if it were mine I would find and repair all leaks with patch material and go fishing.

 

[Loop_Dad]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

Sea Rider, the hole is bigger than the pin hole I fixed on the outside with crazy glue (thanks for the tip from before, BTW). I was able to put my ear to near baffle and was able hear the hissing sound. The speed or the leak was quite fast but not instant. I was able to feel it is deflating in 15 minutes or so, where the pin hole leak on the outside took more than 30 minutes to be noticeable. So I feel it is still a small breakage, but not sure if it is a hole or more like tear inside. Part of me says, just spend $50 to see if the sealant fix this or not, the other part says don't waste money.

deejaycee, that's the thing. I didn't inflate in the order. This was chamber marked as '3' and I only inflated that one when I was fixing the ping hole on the outside.

Incoop, I probably just go fishing. I found a good place to fish the last time and can't wait to get out again!

 

[smashed]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

If the leak is between chambers 4 and 3 you didn't cause the leak. You don't need to fix such small hole. Just inflate in such manner, so that there is no strain to the wall with the leak. For example if you have the pinhole between chambers 3 and 4 inflate chambers 1 and 2 first, then chamber 3 to less than 100%, say to 90% and then Inflate chamber 4 to specs. You could then return to chamber 3 and put some more air if needed. The goal is to have the wall flat and not in a C shape putting strain to the spot with the pinhole.

On my Mariner 4 I had a leak once, which was caused by the seal of the middle part of the valve (not the screw cap), the one you unscrew to deflate the ball. The rubber string-holder got in the thread when I was screwing in that middle section to the base. This caused a tiny leak. But I think you made sure this is not your problem. However keep it in mind, as you operate this type of valves as on the Mariner 4. And Again, don't spend the money on fixing the pinhole. It is more important to avoid putting too much strain to the damaged wall.
Good luck!

 

[lncoop]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

There seems to be some confusion. The blown baffle is irrelevant at this point as blown baffles do not cause external leaks. All that happens in the case of a blown baffle is two smaller chambers become one bigger chamber. Loop_Dad, if you have air leaks you really need to find and fix them. Blow up the boat and spray it all over (including the valves) with soapy water until you find them, then fix them with patch material.

 

[Loop_Dad]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

If the leak is between chambers 4 and 3 you didn't cause the leak. You don't need to fix such small hole. Just inflate in such manner, so that there is no strain to the wall with the leak. For example if you have the pinhole between chambers 3 and 4 inflate chambers 1 and 2 first, then chamber 3 to less than 100%, say to 90% and then Inflate chamber 4 to specs. You could then return to chamber 3 and put some more air if needed. The goal is to have the wall flat and not in a C shape putting strain to the spot with the pinhole.

On my Mariner 4 I had a leak once, which was caused by the seal of the middle part of the valve (not the screw cap), the one you unscrew to deflate the ball. The rubber string-holder got in the thread when I was screwing in that middle section to the base. This caused a tiny leak. But I think you made sure this is not your problem. However keep it in mind, as you operate this type of valves as on the Mariner 4. And Again, don't spend the money on fixing the pinhole. It is more important to avoid putting too much strain to the damaged wall.
Good luck!

smashed, The leak is between chambers 2 and 3. Does that change anything you said?

And yeah it is definitely not the rubber string getting into the thread problem.

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

LP,

The only down issue is that if by accident you punture a hole, or cut any of both chambers, the adjacent will defleat as well. Instead of losing one, you are losing by slow leak 2 at one time. To repair a internal baffle it's time and cost demanding. Just go out have fun and eat good fresh fish...

Happy Boating

 

[smashed]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

smashed, The leak is between chambers 2 and 3. Does that change anything you said?

And yeah it is definitely not the rubber string getting into the thread problem.

Between tubes 2 and 3 would mean that the small internal leak may have been caused by you due to inflation as the internal sleeve was pressed in the opposite direction. IMO you should then inflate tube 1 well, then tube 2 to a bit less than the desired pressure. Then tube 3 and 4 can be inflated to normal pressure. After inflating tube 4 (last, return to tube 2 and check if it needs further inflation. This procedure will be just a precaution, which may not even be necessary because by inflating the tubes in order you are not causing strain to the wall in the wrong direction. However as there is now a week spot in that internal between-chambers wall I believe putting less strain will be a good precaution.

Other than this I wouldn't worry. There is a very small chance of puncturing these boats, I guess, as long as you don't allow over-inflation on changing temperatures throughout the day. I am by no means an expert, but this is my opinion from experience. Just a week ago on my Saturn I observed 25% (20 to 25 kPa) rise in pressure due to rise in ambient temperature and sun exposure. I have no idea how the Intex Mariner will behave at such pressure. And as there is no way of measuring the pressure on the Mariner valves, I would just check them to the touch and would deflate Tube 1 a bit. Then see if the tension on the material in the other tubes has lessened. Better go underinflated a bit than blowing up a tube on the water. Going underinflated on this boat won't cause any damage to it's construction. The difference in motor performance will also be negligible imo.
Enjoy!

 

[Loop_Dad]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the help you provided!

smashed, thanks for precise advice. I will just take the precaution. Where I fish, temp changes from mid 50's in the morning to 90s by mid day often. I usually check the hardness and let go of some air. I usually found the need to let go of air on tube 2 and 3. But maybe those are the ones on the rear and I deflate frist, so by the time I check tube 1 and 4, the pressure as whole is already reduced. Your opinion of deflating tube 1 is to leave the damaged baffle alone as much as possible, correct?

Sea Rider, BTW I am a catching and release guy.

 

[smashed]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

Sea Rider, BTW I am a catching and release guy.

Haha, nice. I have to sort the catching part first, then I will decide on the latter BTW, I read that the Sea Robins taste quite good. I always catch them instead of fluke on surf fishing. I might start keeping the bigger ones. Some say that all Sea Robins should be kept as they eat other small fish preventing their populations from growing...


Loop Dad, I have sometimes wondered why there is an order on the Mariner. I caught myself inflating tube 3 (or any other but not tube 1) first a couple of times, but don't know whether I have caused any damage. Your thread and the description of the guys helped me realise that there is a reason for the order of inflation. I assume it is the way the walls between tubes are attached to the main tubes. I envision tube 1, when inflated, as having both walls in a C shape (of course), but the C's pointing in different directions, something like this (____). However what would be the shape of the walls in chambers 2, 3 and 4? I am sure they will look like this: Chamber 2: (____( and chamber 3 will have the same shape: (_____( of the walls (forget about the curves in the transom and bow tubes, they are irrelevant). Now, I suppose the chamber 4 will have the walls recessed on both sides like this: )_____(. Ok, now if we release air from chamber 2, the walls between chambers 2 and 3, and 3 and 4 will retract and thus relief the tension. But what happens with tube 1 (chamber 1)? Well, there won't be any relief to it's walls. Moreover, this will put even more strain to it's walls (and the seams of the walls) although in the right direction. However, if pressure is initially released from chamber 1, then all the sequence of equally pointing in one direction walls will retract somewhat and the strain will be released from all of them simultaneously.
Keep in mind that this is a pure speculation, but I suspect it is exactly what happens in these chambers. So again, the sequence in all the walls will be: )__4___(__3___(__2___(__1___). and you can see that by releasing the pressure in 1 all the ( walls will flatten somewhat. But the release in pressure in 2 will not help relieve pressure in 1.

Hope I was right.

 

[astanton81]

Re: Chambers Share the Walls?

Hmmm I've only used my Mariner 4 a total of 3 times, but I noticed last weekend when I got it off the shore, and I twisted the top off of the first chamber, that it seemed like one of the neighboring chambers was also deflating with the one I pulled the top off of. I wonder if I blew a baffle or something when I was inflating it or something . I'm going to go inflate it tonight and leave it inflated overnight to see if anything changes in the air pressure.