Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

Jiminthekeys

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Aug 7, 2012
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ok, here's the story. Took my boat out one day 2007 Mercruiser 3.0L with Alpha 1 Gen 2 and I started to hear a chatter/rattle sound coming from the outdrive area when trimming up slightly (like a tap or two) at high RPM (3500-4000) or making moderately tight turns at the same speed. The noise would stop if either I 1.) Straightened the boat out from a turn 2. Slowed down. or 3. Trimmed all the way in. Sometimes I would need a combination of those to make it stop. In my boat went and had a mobile repairman come out to my dock.

Now you are all thinking U joints or Gimbal bearing! I was too. In fact the U joints did have some slop in them when the drive was removed and subsequently replaced them. While the mechanic had everything apart I had him replace the bellows (6years old but otherwise still sealed dry), and gimbal bearing even though that bearing looked fine he put a new permlube one in there. Also, I must note the drive oil was inspected and free of contaminants and replaced since it needed to be drained for the repairs anyway.

After the repairs where finished I took the boat out and to my disappointment the same damn noise is still there and still under the same conditions ($860 wasted)! In fact it now even will make the noise sometimes at WOT 4000-4200 fully trimmed in! I can't even adjust my trim enough to get to the full RPM range for my boat (44-4800RPM). Other than this sound there is really no performance issues (other than not being able to trim or go full speed without forcing the noise). Best way to describe what I am hearing is BB's in a glass jar or something like that.... I also noticed my drive lube monitor go down about an inch topper her up, went out for a few hours the next week and lube went down a little again. No leaks in bilge or out of drive case and no water in drive oil. Also no discoloration of any kind (this was not there before). Maybe it had some air or the mechanic didn't fill it correctly?

I am at a loss and now don't want to use the boat at all for fear of damaging something and being more screwed if I'm (knock on wood) not already... Could it be bearings in the yoke end of the drive shaft?
 

Bondo

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

ok, here's the story. Took my boat out one day 2007 Mercruiser 3.0L with Alpha 1 Gen 2 and I started to hear a chatter/rattle sound coming from the outdrive area when trimming up slightly (like a tap or two) at high RPM (3500-4000) or making moderately tight turns at the same speed. The noise would stop if either I 1.) Straightened the boat out from a turn 2. Slowed down. or 3. Trimmed all the way in. Sometimes I would need a combination of those to make it stop. In my boat went and had a mobile repairman come out to my dock.

Now you are all thinking U joints or Gimbal bearing! I was too. In fact the U joints did have some slop in them when the drive was removed and subsequently replaced them. While the mechanic had everything apart I had him replace the bellows (6years old but otherwise still sealed dry), and gimbal bearing even though that bearing looked fine he put a new permlube one in there. Also, I must note the drive oil was inspected and free of contaminants and replaced since it needed to be drained for the repairs anyway.

After the repairs where finished I took the boat out and to my disappointment the same damn noise is still there and still under the same conditions ($860 wasted)! In fact it now even will make the noise sometimes at WOT 4000-4200 fully trimmed in! I can't even adjust my trim enough to get to the full RPM range for my boat (44-4800RPM). Other than this sound there is really no performance issues (other than not being able to trim or go full speed without forcing the noise). Best way to describe what I am hearing is BB's in a glass jar or something like that.... I also noticed my drive lube monitor go down about an inch topper her up, went out for a few hours the next week and lube went down a little again. No leaks in bilge or out of drive case and no water in drive oil. Also no discoloration of any kind (this was not there before). Maybe it had some air or the mechanic didn't fill it correctly?

I am at a loss and now don't want to use the boat at all for fear of damaging something and being more screwed if I'm (knock on wood) not already... Could it be bearings in the yoke end of the drive shaft?

Ayuh,.... Change the fuel filter, 'n check the Contents of the old filter for Water,....

Ya might be hearin' Detonation,...
 

Jiminthekeys

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Aug 7, 2012
Messages
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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

Thanks for the reply Bondo.

The boat does not have a fuel filter. I think there is a filter in the side of the carb where the fuel line goes into though. Is that what you are talking about? What would cause detonation and how can I check to see if it's that? Timing? Clogged filter?
 

Bondo

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

Thanks for the reply Bondo.

The boat does not have a fuel filter. I think there is a filter in the side of the carb where the fuel line goes into though. Is that what you are talking about? What would cause detonation and how can I check to see if it's that? Timing? Clogged filter?

Ayuh,.... Then Get one, 'n install it before the fuel pump,...

Detonation is caused by a lean condition,....
 

Jiminthekeys

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

So how would a fuel filter cause a lean condition? Wouldn't that be a carburetor out of adjustment? Any other causes or signs of getting a lean condition? Plugs would be white right?
 

Bondo

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

So how would a fuel filter cause a lean condition? Wouldn't that be a carburetor out of adjustment? Any other causes or signs of getting a lean condition? Plugs would be white right?

Ayuh,.... Any Restriction, Anywhere in the fuel system can cause a lean condition,...

The plugs would be white/ clean, with possible piston fragments, if shut-down quickly, 'n inspected,...
 

Jiminthekeys

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

I will pull the plugs and change the little filter that is inside the carb body where the fuel supply hose goes into when I get home today. I will probably have to order a seperator filter and some fuel hose and connections though.

Is that the only way for me to tell if there is a lean condition?
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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27,468
Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

It's quite normal for the drive oil monitor to go down after an oil change. Unless the mechanic is willing to do what's needed to get all the air out of the drive (i am, most are not. It's quite a time consuming job, involving laying the drive on its side and slowly filling that rest of the drive shaft housing AFTER filling it the specified way) then with use that air will work it's way back out through the monitor, appearing that the drive is losing oil.

I'm with Bondo, detonation. And get a separate water filter on that engine... Fuel Water Separator Kit for Johnson/Evinrude, Mercruiser, OMC Sterndrive/Cobra, Mercury/Mariner, Yamaha Outboard, Tempo 170103 170102 - Sierra 18-7775-1
 

Jiminthekeys

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

OK, I removed all the plugs and they all look good. No detonation, overheat, lean, or rich tell tale signs on them. The filter inside the carb is clean. Also the fuel in the boat is rather new and is non-ethonol marine fuel. I also picked up a generic fuel separator filter/bracket kit and will install this weekend when I get some more time.

Since the plugs, fuel, and filter appear normal what should I look at now?
 

Bondo

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

OK, I removed all the plugs and they all look good. No detonation, overheat, lean, or rich tell tale signs on them. The filter inside the carb is clean. Also the fuel in the boat is rather new and is non-ethonol marine fuel. I also picked up a generic fuel separator filter/bracket kit and will install this weekend when I get some more time.

Since the plugs, fuel, and filter appear normal what should I look at now?

Ayuh,... So What did the spark plugs look like,..?? Colors,..??

I guess I'd do a diagnostic Tune up,...
Check the timin', 'n a Compression test,...

If everything checks out, Pull the carb, 'n rebuild it,...
Maybe the hi-speed circuit is restricted/ gummed up/ plugged up,...
 
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Jiminthekeys

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

All plugs looked slightly brownish, clean, no wear on electrode or other metal electrode part (can't think of what it's called).

The engine idles, and runs otherwise great from what I can tell, before I jump into a carb rebuild don't you think I should try and isolate the source of the noise I'm hearing first? I'm still not confident it's not the outdrive...
 

Bondo

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

All plugs looked slightly brownish, clean, no wear on electrode or other metal electrode part (can't think of what it's called).

The engine idles, and runs otherwise great from what I can tell, before I jump into a carb rebuild don't you think I should try and isolate the source of the noise I'm hearing first? I'm still not confident it's not the outdrive...

Ayuh,.... I'd figured ya started that process quite awhile ago,....
 

Jiminthekeys

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

Well I had the gimbal bearing and unis replaced and then sound is still there. I will hear the sound only at high rpm ranges when trimming up slightly or turning tight. When I straighten or trim back down it stops. This to me doesn't sound like I should be looking at the engine. It is my first I/o so I'm not very familiar with these types of issues...
 

BRG25

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

Perhaps you should take someone out with you who is familiar with I/O's for a second opinion? My outdrive has always had a slight u-joint rattle during sharp turns since new. I'm wondering if what you are hearing is normal?
 

Jiminthekeys

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

No one has I/o s in the keys down here it all outboard CC's. I know it's not normal. It didn't do it before and now I can't trim up really at all going straight on a plane or it will sound like I'm destroying something.
 

Walt T

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

Coupler or exhaust flappers. Symptoms so so on flappers, but coupler can do that everytime there is a turn or trim I suppose because of stress in the shaft on it. I know its not typical coupler noise but been there done that swearing it wasn't a coupler and found a broken spring or two that allowed the plate to move somewhat. Try having someone drive the boat and make the noise happen and you try to isolate where it is. It can also be in the top gear set but doesn't fit really. Grasping at straws.. you positive the nut isn't coming off the prop?
 
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flipbro

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

If you believe he didnt put enough oil in leg(OR AIR IN THE SYSTEM) what else did he over look a poorly installed bearing mabe a ujoint! Did you see him do it or the old parts? Did he install the C rings properly or the rite ones so you dont get U joint knocking? Trust no one lol
 

Jiminthekeys

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

I will pull drive this weekend and post picks of what everything looks like. Maybe I might find and error in his install. And no I did not see the bad parts he replaced them at his shop and reinstalled everything here. I only saw the new ones and nothing look out of the norm to me. But again I'm new to I/O's. I have a friend who is a mechanic at the CG sta I work T that will come out with me this weekend also so we can try and pint point exactly the location of the noise. I'll keep everyone posted

Thank you all so far! I appreciate all your suggestions!
 

Jiminthekeys

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Re: Chatter/Rattle coming from Alpha 1 Gen II

Plugs 1-4 from right to left
photo 1.jpg


Carb Filter. A few particles but nothing major. I replaced anyway.
photo 2.jpg


Video of engine Idling. I can maybe hear what I think is the U joints but I think it may be normal...
 
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