Choice to make

[Btuvi]

Options keep opening up so I need some more good thinking.

Engine to go on a Hydra-sport 20' Dual Console

Choice between 2002 225 opti with about 800 hours and good compression or 2002 Opti with Quicksilver factory reman powerhead with 1 year factory warranty from Mercury. $1500 price difference between the two.

Basically, maybe, the question is: Is the 800 hours likely to be a good engine for many hours to come? If I did have problems would $1500 be likely to fix them?

Is $1500 well spent on new powerhead and 1 year warranty. Is it a safer investment - to the tune of $1500?

There is a third option: 2002 175 opti with 500 hours priced in between the two for a $750 difference.

A major consideration for me is operating expense. Based on the best comparisons I can make at Mercury the 175 would deliver 5 mpg versus 3 mpg.

Does that sound about right? That is a huge difference. I like the extra power and speed of a 225 but if those figures are any where near accurate I would prefer the 175.

Your thoughts, please.

Thanks

 

[Btuvi]

Re: Choice to make

I had decided that I would prefer the 175 because of fuel economy and sent an email to the dealer saying that I would pass on both of the 225's. He doesn't have a 175. I could get that elsewhere.

The dealer sent me the following email espousing the fuel economy benefits of the 225's. Your comments please?

(I do advise the 225. Its a 3.0L vrs a 2.5L, it has a ton more tork and will run at a lower rpm The lower units are a different ratio and will allow you to run a more effient prop, the Enertia 17P. And you alway have the speed if needed. I would have to say the fuel economy is going to be much closer than you think do to the 225 working less. I ran the boat with a 2.5L 200 and 225 opti, the 225 with computerized fuel economy burned 7.8 gals per hour at cruise (3200 rpm) the smaller opti will not cruise at 3200, more like 3800 - 4000)

 

[dingbat]

Re: Choice to make

How did you derive your original performance numbers?

The model specific performance numbers on my boat have the difference between the 200hp and the 225hp motor at 0.2 mpg at a cruise speed of 28 mph.

A boat that is perceived as being under powered is a tough sale on the used market. Especially if water sports are involved.

 

[NelsonQ]

Re: Choice to make

Btuvi

Will the dealer strap the 175 on your boat and then the 225 for a comparison of cruising RPMs to support his claims.

My initial thought is that you'll see somewhat along the lines of what he's stating in that you'll be able to cruise at lower RPMs with the larger engine however the difference between the two I don't think would be substantial enough when talking a few hundred RPMs that it would be a show stopper.

Me personally, I'd go with the extra ponies in the 225. Which one would really depend on your risk/comfortable level with or without warranty.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Choice to make

no one ever complains they have too much HP, they complain about not having enough. you don't have to use it all, but nice to have when you need it. also, resale is having the rated Hp, is a big selling factor. all 3 are basically used motors so you really don't know what you are getting.

 

[dajohnson53]

Re: Choice to make

no one ever complains they have too much HP, they complain about not having enough. you don't have to use it all, but nice to have when you need it. also, resale is having the rated Hp, is a big selling factor. all 3 are basically used motors so you really don't know what you are getting.

BIG agreement here.

If it were me, I'd absolutely buy a 225, for the reason tashasdaddy gave - and it would be the factory reman 225 with the warranty. For me 800 hours (on the used 225) is a lot of use - at least 5 years worth for me. There is nothing remotely new or even low use about that engine. Not to say it doesn't have a lot of life left, but it is no spring chicken. I would consider the factory reman w/ warranty as virtually "new" and therefore well worth a $1,500 price difference. I would expect the reliability and long life of a new engine with the benefit of total control over maintenace and usage from "day one" as opposed to the uncertain 800 hours of use.

Also, I'm no expert on this, but I just can't believe that at a given cruising speed, that there would be a meaningful difference between the economy of a 175 and a 225.

Sure, at wide open the 225 will burn more fuel: it is putting out 225 hp at WOT and the other is putting out 175. It simply takes more fuel to produce the extra 50 hp. You'd be burning more fuel but would be going faster.

But - to my possibly uninformed mind - given a certain cruising speed (speed, not RPM) that is significantly below WOT for both engines, the two engines should be using the same HP to push the boat at that speed. Therefore, the fuel consumption should be about the same. I think to great extent gas consumption is closely related to HP produced. Now, I do understand that each engine will have it's own curve of efficiency and the 175 might be most efficient at a different speed than the 225, and one may indeed be more efficient than the other at your favorite overall usage. But without testing, I don't believe we can make any general statement about which one would be more efficient at what speed, or which one will burn less gas for you than the other given the overall usage you give (idle vs. cruise, vs water sports vs WOT, etc.) Again, this is just my opinion and I'm not an engineer or otherwised qualified to make pronouncements.

 

[Btuvi]

Re: Choice to make

Dingbat - First: I misfigured. Second: The closest comparison I could find on Mercury was a 22.2 Glassmaster Deep V 8.6' beam with 225 with following figures: 3000rpm 26mph 5.9gph 4.4mpg.

Hard to compare with same engine on a 20' Deep v with 8.0' beam but my guess would be that this boat would get more mpg in sweet spot - whatever that was.

Good point all concerning value retention for resale.

I like to go as fast as I can and fear I will have trouble getting the best fuel economy with 225 versus 175.

Thanks for your views, Mr. Johnson, regarding reman. Makes sense.

The dealer mentioned using 7.8 gal per hour at cruise 3200 rpm. But without knowing speed one can't determine mpg which, as Silvertip states, is the real key.

Here is what I would like to accomplish: It is 20 miles from my home to the gulf. There is great fishing within 5 miles of shore. I would like to be able to make the trip to the gulf in half an hour at 32mph - and back in half an hour. Much of my time in the gulf would be spent at a slower cruise speed moving from place to place at approx the same cruise speed for two hours. If I can get 5mpg on average for all those mile (about 60 total divided by 5 = 12) then at $4.00 per gal it would cost me $48.00 in gas.

Yes, I know. I've generalized and averagilized and failed to take into consideration trolling speed and wot and other unknown factors. But I'm just trying to ballpark it.

If the 175 and the 225 would perform anywhere close to each other I would much prefer the 225 and try and control that throttle a bit.

I'm always interested in whatever you folks have to share.

Thanks

 

[triumphrick]

Re: Choice to make

Btuvi, my man, you are on the right track. Here is what one of our esteemed members told us about boat motors....

QUOTE=Btuvi;1830849]FOUR STROKE/TWO STROKE . You have to be a mechanic to get that metal box off of there. And even if you knew how to take it off what you would see wouldn?t make any sense to you. It?s all just wires and screws and carburetors and strokes and plugs and things like that. Most of it is just a huge chunk of metal that they could probably do without anyway. It just adds to the weight but they started out using it years ago to attach wires and things to and, despite high tech advances, they still use it. Throw it away, I say. Except maybe if they didn?t have all that weight back there when you gave it the gas it would nose dive and nobody wants that.
Me: I owe it all to those folks on iboats. They taught me a lot. It was tough going at first but once I applied myself I caught right on.[/QUOTE]

 

[DJ]

Re: Choice to make

Get the 225 and control the "happy lever" yourself.

No matter how you calculate it, a larger engine loafing is going to be stingier on fuel than a smaller one running faster/harder.

The dealer is right. Go for the reman.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Choice to make

Get the 225 and control the "happy lever" yourself.

No matter how you calculate it, a larger engine loafing is going to be stingier on fuel than a smaller one running faster/harder.

The dealer is right. Go for the reman.

Totally agree.

 

[Btuvi]

Re: Choice to make

Thanks for all your help, guys. The more I think about it the more I realize my biggest fear is operating expense. I live too close to the water and can easily see myself taking a 2 hour cruise several times a week in addition to whatever fishing trips I take. I think I really need a kayak. Two stroke or four stroke on that kayak? I'm unsure.