Coast guard hits a boat....

45Auto

Commander
Joined
May 31, 2002
Messages
2,842
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Alright, I'll repeat it again for the third time for you. What don't you understand about VESSEL OF THE COAST GUARD? It doesn't say "Vessel of the Coast Guard Auxiliary".

US Code 14.23-827 says:

While assigned to authorized Coast Guard duty, any motorboat or yacht shall be deemed to be a public vessel of the United States and a vessel of the Coast Guard

Sorry, no interest in the CG here! Just thought it was funny watching people try to defend them. Thanks for the recruitment offer though! :)
 

Drowned Rat

Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,070
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

You don't have to shout. It doesn't make you right.
 

45Auto

Commander
Joined
May 31, 2002
Messages
2,842
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

LMAO!!! Dude, get over it Rat! Everybody makes mistakes. The real services make mistakes. The Army, the Navy, the Air Force, and the Marines all make mistakes. The churches make mistakes. The Catholics and Baptists and Muslims all make mistakes. It's all made up of people, nobody's perfect.

That's what's so funny about this thread, watching the defenders of the Coast Guard with the blinders on trying to point fingers everywhere else. Man up and admit the mistake was made then figure out how you're going to fix it, don't try to hide behind some semantics that "it wasn't a REAL Coast Guard boat".
 

Drowned Rat

Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,070
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Just stating a fact. It wasn't the regular Coast Guard.
 

SnappingTurtle

Lieutenant
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
1,251
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

AFN says, Duck and Cover!
 

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45Auto

Commander
Joined
May 31, 2002
Messages
2,842
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Come on Turtle, we're making significant progress here! We've gone from

Drowned Rat, post #10:
I don't know what boat collided with the speedboat, but I can tell you without a doubt, it was not a U.S. Coast Guard boat.

and

Drowned Rat, post #21:
It wasn't a Coast Guard boat. Please stop calling it that.

to

Drowned Rat, post #42:
It wasn't the regular Coast Guard.

:)
 

Drowned Rat

Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,070
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

You're absolutely right 45, it wasn't a U.S. Coast Guard boat.

It was a Coast Guard Aux. boat.

The CG Aux, is not regular Coast Guard.

You're a little slow on the uptake, but you finally got it right.

Too funny.
 

45Auto

Commander
Joined
May 31, 2002
Messages
2,842
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg3/cg3pcx/title14.asp

Sec. 827. Vessel deemed public vessel

-STATUTE-
While assigned to authorized Coast Guard duty, any motorboat or yacht shall be deemed to be a public vessel of the United States and a vessel of the Coast Guard within the meaning of sections 646 and 647 of this title and other applicable provisions of law.

:) :)
 

Drowned Rat

Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,070
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Okay, okay, I was wrong.
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You really don't get it. :)


STATUTE-
The purpose of the Auxiliary is to assist the Coast Guard as authorized by the Commandant, in performing any Coast Guard function, power, duty, role, mission, or operation authorized by law.

The Auxiliary ASSISTS the Coast Guard.


-STATUTE-
No member of the Auxiliary, solely by reason of such membership, shall be vested with, or exercise, any right, privilege, power, or duty vested in or imposed upon the personnel of the Coast Guard.
 

HappierWet

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
839
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Man, 45and Rat....Are you guys like brothers or were you competing back in high school for the same girl....OR WHAT? LMAO :D You guys are like two old ladies. The friggin guy made a mistake and thankfully it was not any worse than it was.
 

kenmyfam

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
14,392
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Back to the video clip !!!!
Bottom line. Both boat captains were stupid and inattentive. Heads up and being aware of your surroundings would have avoided the entire thing. That and using the boats basic controls (throttle and steering) in a competent manner would have taken any danger out of the situation.
 

45Auto

Commander
Joined
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Messages
2,842
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Come on Rat, pretty feeble attempt there. Read the rest of the statute. At least post the whole sentence instead of using half of it completely out of context so everyone can see that it says the exact opposite of what you're trying to imply!! When the auxiliary is performing their authorized duties they have the same power and authority as the regular Coast Guard. :) Here's the complete text of Statute 813, I'll even highlight the relevent sentence for you: :D :D

Sec. 831. Assignment and performance of duties

-STATUTE-
No member of the Auxiliary, solely by reason of such membership, shall be vested with, or exercise, any right, privilege, power, or duty vested in or imposed upon the personnel of the Coast Guard or the Reserve, except that any such member may, under applicable regulations, be assigned duties, which, after appropriate training and examination, he has been found competent to perform, to effectuate the purposes of the Auxiliary. No member of the Auxiliary shall be placed in charge of a motorboat, yacht, aircraft, or radio station assigned to Coast Guard duty unless he has been specifically designated by authority of the Commandant to perform such duty. Members of the Auxiliary, when assigned to duties as herein authorized shall, unless otherwise limited by the Commandant, be vested with the same power and authority, in the execution of such duties, as members of the regular Coast Guard assigned to similar duty. When any member of the Auxiliary is assigned to such duty he may, pursuant to regulations issued by the Secretary, be paid actual necessary traveling expenses, including a per diem allowance in conformity with standardized Government travel regulations in lieu of subsistence, while traveling and while on duty away from his home. No per diem shall be paid for any period during which quarters and subsistence in kind are furnished by the Government, and no per diem shall be paid for any period while such member is performing duty on a vessel.
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Looking up a particular section of CFR, and understanding why it was put in place and how it is applied, are two different things.

One of the primary reasons for treating the CG Aux as part of the CG, while on specific orders, is liability. When on official orders, CG Aux members can not be personally sued for their actions on that mission. Given the difficulty that the USCG would have in attracting people to join the CG Aux, if not for this provision, allowing this safety net makes sense.

Another reason, is that the USCG feels that the Aux members need to have a certain amount of authority, within the limits of the specific duties that they have been assigned. This does not mean that an Aux unit, which is participating in a SAR, is permitted to conduct all of the activities that the regular CG is involved in.

The fact of the matter, is that the CG Aux is not the same thing as the USCG. It has no law enforcement authorization (which is why they can't cite a boat with safety violations) and it can not be assigned combat duty. The CG Aux is also not utilized in high risk rescue scenarios. They don't operate surf boats, conduct rescues in extreme weather, or find themselves hanging off of a steel cable below a helicopter, while conducting a rescue hoist. They didn't operate landing craft at D-Day, operate small boats or ships during Operation Market Time in Vietnam, or provide Port Security in Kuwait or Iraq.

The CG Aux vessels are also not permitted to be marked as the regular CG boats are, and the Aux members may not wear the same uniforms. CG Aux vessels and aircraft are not referred to in the same way as regular USCG vessels and aircraft - they are specifically referred to as "facilities," and that designation is only used while on a specifically assigned mission. If on a mission that involved a CG helo and an Aux unit, I would refer to the helo as "Rescue ####" and the Aux unit as "Facility #####." This is done for the specific purpose of differentiating between the two.

The key here is the range of authority given to Aux members when assigned to duties similar to regular CG personnel. Since the duties assigned to the Aux members are very limited, so is the authority - and it isn't anywhere close to the full range of what the USCG does.

In the case that we are discussing, the boat operator (probably boat owner) will be off the hook in terms of any liability claims made by the guys he hit. If he was trying to head them off, however, he clearly exceeded his authority. because as I mentioned before, he has no LEO authority. The guy made a very dumb mistake and it is unfortunate that most people don't understand the difference between CG Aux and the USCG.

PS: One thing I neglected to mention, is that CG Aux members also receive benefits in regard to injuries or damage to their boats, while on an assigned mission. If they are injured, they receive healthcare benefits, and if their boats are damaged, they can submit repair bills for reimbursement. Both of these benefits are very important because private insurance would not be likely to cover either, while on an assigned mission for a military service.
 

Tim Frank

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,346
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

Thanks for the explanation Jay. :)

You are right, Jay was concise and articulate.....but somehow I miss the stimulation of that high-brow debate that never seemed to end....

Rat : "was not!"
45 : "was so!"
Rat: "was not!"
45 : "was so"
rat: "was not"
45: "was so!"
and i think a couple more....:)
Only thing we were missing was a pinky swear and maybe a "double-dog dare".
Haven't seen anything that good since third grade.
 

45Auto

Commander
Joined
May 31, 2002
Messages
2,842
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

LMAO!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D

Don't you just love this internet stuff??? How did we kill time before it was around???
 

idrownworms

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
224
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

before the internet, hmm lets see.
party line phones.
black and white tv, that went off the air at night.
unless you lived in a big city nothing open past 9:00 oclock, even then it would only be a gas station and if you were lucky a grocery store
no cable tv.
the price you paid for a gallon of gas was less the the tax on a gallon of gas now.
i could go on but i'll stop before i date myself
jamie
 

biggtuna

Cadet
Joined
Sep 21, 2008
Messages
9
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

woo hoo this famous video on iboats made it to tv. was just watching a show called destroyed in seconds, and they showed it said it was lake michigan (not sure if the first post says that ) thought you all would like to know
 

KewlBird

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
247
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

woo hoo this famous video on iboats made it to tv. was just watching a show called destroyed in seconds, and they showed it said it was lake michigan (not sure if the first post says that ) thought you all would like to know

Yeah, I saw that after posting this thread. I was a little disappointed that it was in Lake Michigan, but kind of knew because of all the bad boaters around here. I always keep my eyes open for crazy operators trying to cut me off even though I have the right of way.
 

mthieme

Captain
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
3,270
Re: Coast guard hits a boat....

I saw it on TV too.
I guess Lake Michigan just isn't big enough!

As long as I'm posting....
Having seen all the back and forth with rules & regs, nothing on any piece of paper would have made a difference. The incident was a simply a result of negligence.
 
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