Concealed gun question

[Knightgang]

Re: Concealed gun question

I am not trying to add fuel to a political fire and hope that this post is not read in that way, but I felt the need to continue this discussion...

TX, I can see your point, and to an extent you are correct. However, I think the legislatures need to define what they see as a militia if they are interpreting as you suggest, the rights of the militia...

From Wikipedia...

The term militia is commonly used today to refer to a military force composed of ordinary citizens[1] to provide defense, emergency law enforcement, or paramilitary service, in times of emergency without being paid a regular salary or committed to a fixed term of service. It is a polyseme with multiple distinct but related meanings. Legal and historical meanings of militia include:

Defense activity or service, to protect a community, its territory, property, and laws.[2]
The entire able-bodied population of a community, town, county, or state, available to be called to arms.
A subset of these who may be legally penalized for failing to respond to a call-up.
A subset of these who actually respond to a call-up, regardless of legal obligation.
A private, non-government force, not necessarily directly supported or sanctioned by its government.
An official reserve army, composed of citizen soldiers. Called by various names in different countries such as; the Army Reserve, National Guard, or State Defense Forces.

According to this definition, the State Defense Forces are the only organized militia left. However, to my knowledge they do not have weapons, especially since they are an unpaid force.

So, in the event of a militia call (out to ordinary citizens, like what was done in the Rev War.) then where would the volunteers secure weapons from for defense??? Remember those that were part of the militia used their own weapons and gear.

2nd amendment causes alot of greif for states and legislatures because so many weapons are used i the commission of crimes, and those that are ignorant about weapons feel that if they control weapons, they can control crime. You can kill someone just as easily with a Claw Hammer as you can a gun. Control is not the issue, education is. Criminals will be criminals no matter the weapon. Licensing and registering of guns I am fine with. But to ban and not license at all, I would have issues with if I were in one of those states...

 

[JustJason]

Re: Concealed gun question

and to me a gun is just another tool. Nothing to be scared of

The first time I used a table saw I was scared
The first time I used a table router, I was a little nervous too
One time I was using the router, and the bearing came off the bit and hit me square dead center of my forehead. I now use a full face shield instead of safety glasses. But It still isn't my most favorite tool in the workshop

 

[SuperNova]

Re: Concealed gun question

I think the 2nd amendment stands on it's own just fine...it is clear and succinct.....no interpretation needed or wanted.

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: Concealed gun question

I think the 2nd amendment stands on it's own just fine...it is clear and succinct.....no interpretation needed or wanted.

Agreed And it was nice to see the Supreme Court uphold the fact that "militias" refer to ordinary citizens in the Washington DC case last year. A gentleman wanted to be able to carry on the way to work and back and it became a precedent-setting case:

[In a historic 5-4 decision Thursday, the Supreme Court declared for the first time that the Second Amendment protects an individual right -- not a collective or militia right -- to keep and bear firearms for self-defense.

The ruling ended the Court's nearly 70-year aversion to considering the meaning of the Second Amendment's oddly constructed language: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The immediate result of the ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller was to strike down the District's tough 32-year-old ban on handguns and its trigger-lock requirement on other firearms, which the city had said were essential to contain violence in the nation's capital.]

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Concealed gun question

Agreed And it was nice to see the Supreme Court uphold the fact that "militias" refer to ordinary citizens in the Washington DC case last year. A gentleman wanted to be able to carry on the way to work and back and it became a precedent-setting case:

[In a historic 5-4 decision Thursday, the Supreme Court declared for the first time that the Second Amendment protects an individual right -- not a collective or militia right -- to keep and bear firearms for self-defense.

The ruling ended the Court's nearly 70-year aversion to considering the meaning of the Second Amendment's oddly constructed language: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The immediate result of the ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller was to strike down the District's tough 32-year-old ban on handguns and its trigger-lock requirement on other firearms, which the city had said were essential to contain violence in the nation's capital.]

I did not hear about this but very good information... Glad to know that some people are getting good sense back...

 

[rbh]

Re: Concealed gun question

In Canada in the last couple of years they have introduced the long gun registery, this is for all rifles and shotguns Pistols and automatic weapons have always been in the restricted catagory. You can obtain a restricted license for a pistol, but you need to be in law enforcement, and special security to carry, (the guy that watches a building or wanders the fairgrounds during special events, doesnt get one). Automatic weapons are strictly for military and special police services, although people in the movie industry bring them in for props
One of the big issues is the flow of arms and ammo between the US and Canada, guns for dope.
Not so long ago people on friday and saturday would stagger out to the parking lots and play smash face, now they're pulling guns and doing drive bys.
Our country is changing.
rob

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: Concealed gun question

Some people with permits shouldnt have them. Thats my concern. My son has a friend whos dad was shot dead over a parking space by a guy with a carry permit....I hope he gets the death penalty

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Concealed gun question

My son has a friend whos dad was shot dead over a parking space by a guy with a carry permit....

You touch on a good point that's worth mentioning. A carry permit is just that - a permit to carry. The instant you pull that trigger, a whole other set of laws comes into play. And at that point it makes little difference if you have a carry permit or not.

BTW, CCW permits are not always "concealed" carry. In some states, it's just a carry permit, open or concealed makes no difference. Be careful when making global statements about state laws. Remember, we have 48 of them and their laws vary, or is it 50 (hmm..wonder where I put that revolver).

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Concealed gun question

You touch on a good point that's worth mentioning. A carry permit is just that - a permit to carry. The instant you pull that trigger, a whole other set of laws comes into play. And at that point it makes little difference if you have a carry permit or not.

BTW, CCW permits are not always "concealed" carry. In some states, it's just a carry permit, open or concealed makes no difference. Be careful when making global statements about state laws. Remember, we have 48 of them and their laws vary, or is it 50 (hmm..wonder where I put that revolver).

This is correct. For instance, in GA, it is legal to open carry without a permit of any kind. But you need a permit to carry concealed.

Once you shoot, permit or not, the action will be judged. Hope you got the circumstance right...

With the possibility of investigations after certain engagements in Iraq and the possibility of circumstances that could end in civilians (or at least perceived civilians) getting injured or killed, I preached two things to my soldiers regarding the questioning of an investigation.

1. We are in a hostile area and anyone could be carrying a weapon, so if you have to shoot, you make the investigator beleive that you felt your life (or your buddies life) was in immediate danger...

2. Don't let the investigator make you second guess your actions or trick you into a guilt trip...

Point is, if you have to shoot, you need to be absolutley sure that it is justified (your life or that of another) was in immediate danger and shooting was the only option to avoid civilian casualty... After the incident, stick to your facts as to what happened, and do not let your emotions get in the way, they will trip you up...

 

[JustJason]

Re: Concealed gun question

Point is, if you have to shoot, you need to be absolutley sure that it is justified

Good point. Same thing as I said when I wrote " you never ever ever touch the trigger untill you made the concious decision to fire"

I still read articals to this day about "accidental discharges". On an old gun sure, but 99% of modern day firearms will not fire unless something has pulled the trigger.

 

[SuperNova]

Re: Concealed gun question

One of the things most people don't realize is this : Even if you are absolutely justified in your actions, the police who arrive at the scene initially are not going to know exactly what happened....so be prepared to be arrested and handcuffed and for gods sake...put your weapon down. Secondly, if there is the slightest question in anybody's mind of what went down......you will be spending some time in jail and you will need a lawyer.
With all the associated expenses.
These are all things that should be considered long before the time comes to make snap decisions. A permit to carry is NOT a license to kill and it does not automatically justify any use of a firearm.

 

[kei9th]

Re: Concealed gun question

just yell hes coming right for us then shoot. it always works on south park when uncle jimbo and ned were hunting. they got away with shooting anything even with a bazooka.

 

[xxxflhrci]

Re: Concealed gun question

One of the things most people don't realize is this : Even if you are absolutely justified in your actions, the police who arrive at the scene initially are not going to know exactly what happened....so be prepared to be arrested and handcuffed and for gods sake...put your weapon down. Secondly, if there is the slightest question in anybody's mind of what went down......you will be spending some time in jail and you will need a lawyer.

Exactly...and don't expect that your that you will tell you story about what happened and have your actions ruled justified right there on the scene. There will be an investigation. A homicide investigation, in which you will be the suspect, the findings of the investigation will be presented to the prosecutor for him to rule whether your actions are justified or not.

 

[kei9th]

Re: Concealed gun question

I am sure in Florida that you do not have to try to run away anymore. if you feel you are in immediate danger you can shoot first. you cant protect yourself but not property, i.e. wallet, jewelery, vehicle, (unless your in it). a little old lady will get away with protecting herself easier than a 300 lb man, but if you are going to be hurt badly or killed Florida says kill them first.

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Concealed gun question

I am sure in Florida that you do not have to try to run away anymore. if you feel you are in immediate danger you can shoot first. you cant protect yourself but not property, i.e. wallet, jewelery, vehicle, (unless your in it). a little old lady will get away with protecting herself easier than a 300 lb man, but if you are going to be hurt badly or killed Florida says kill them first.

And ask questions later...

I would rather be the one answering the questions than be the one in the pine box or the MEs cooler...

 

[SuperNova]

Re: Concealed gun question

And ask questions later...

I would rather be the one answering the questions than be the one in the pine box or the MEs cooler...

Agreed!!

 

[aspeck]

Re: Concealed gun question

I have a CWP and carry occasionally ... depending on the circumstances. Most do not know I am carrying, but on the occasions of collecting money late at night from the family car wash, the concealed weapon becomes very visible. I would rather they know and run than have to confront. I have never had to pull a weapon on anyone and I hope and pray I never do. I would be hard pressed to pull on someone that was just threatening me, but threaten my family, or my neighbors, or anyone else for that matter, and you will face me.

Owning and carrying weapons are a right that our forefathers gave us. They saw the need for self protection against abusive governments. We have the right of self preservation and protection. We do not have the right to infringe on others rights. That is why a weapon should remain concealed unless action is needed, or it can prevent escalation of action.

Good question, Paul, and thanks for taking the time to get to know a culture that is different from yours. Growing up in central PA where almost everyone owns a gun and most hunt, it is hard for me to imagine your culture. Our crime rate is pretty low and I think the fact that criminals in this area knowing 9 out of every 10 houses they would enter own guns has something to do about it.

 

[paulspaddle]

Re: Concealed gun question

I have a CWP and carry occasionally ... depending on the circumstances. Most do not know I am carrying, but on the occasions of collecting money late at night from the family car wash, the concealed weapon becomes very visible. I would rather they know and run than have to confront. I have never had to pull a weapon on anyone and I hope and pray I never do. I would be hard pressed to pull on someone that was just threatening me, but threaten my family, or my neighbors, or anyone else for that matter, and you will face me.

Owning and carrying weapons are a right that our forefathers gave us. They saw the need for self protection against abusive governments. We have the right of self preservation and protection. We do not have the right to infringe on others rights. That is why a weapon should remain concealed unless action is needed, or it can prevent escalation of action.

Good question, Paul, and thanks for taking the time to get to know a culture that is different from yours. Growing up in central PA where almost everyone owns a gun and most hunt, it is hard for me to imagine your culture. Our crime rate is pretty low and I think the fact that criminals in this area knowing 9 out of every 10 houses they would enter own guns has something to do about it.

Thanks....this was interesting.

The question had the potential to be 'loaded' and when the word "right" is used it can get political and degrade a conversation (thread) quickly. This didn't happen here and the chatter was congenial and respectful....hmmmm, maybe that says something about the majority of educated gun carriers?

Thanks for the responses.

 

[CheapboatKev]

Re: Concealed gun question

During the Rodney King era and the Los Angeles riots that went along with that insanity...

I carried my 1911A1, my father brought it to me at my workplace in a brown paper bag like a PB&J sandwhich, along with 50 rounds of FMJ Blackhills ammo.

That same night, I pulled into a gas station that was closed and boarded up, but there was a mini pick up parked by a pump with 3 or 4 unsavory gentlemen in the bed.

I realized they must be waiting for dusk or darkness to break into the gas station or Lord knows what.

They spotted me and immediatley started to climb out of the back of the truck motioning towards me and beginning to call me all types of "ethnic" names.

I had the 45 on the passenger seat, picked it up, rolled the window down and visibly showed them the cannon as I racked the slide and although not pointing directly at them, they understood the message.

They backed off quickly, and before they got to their truck I was outta there.

 

[BeaufortTJustice]

Re: Concealed gun question

During the Rodney King era and the Los Angeles riots that went along with that insanity...

I carried my 1911A1, my father brought it to me at my workplace in a brown paper bag like a PB&J sandwhich, along with 50 rounds of FMJ Blackhills ammo.

That same night, I pulled into a gas station that was closed and boarded up, but there was a mini pick up parked by a pump with 3 or 4 unsavory gentlemen in the bed.

I realized they must be waiting for dusk or darkness to break into the gas station or Lord knows what.

They spotted me and immediatley started to climb out of the back of the truck motioning towards me and beginning to call me all types of "ethnic" names.

I had the 45 on the passenger seat, picked it up, rolled the window down and visibly showed them the cannon as I racked the slide and although not pointing directly at them, they understood the message.

They backed off quickly, and before they got to their truck I was outta there.

You misunderstood them...they were politely advising you that the station was closed, but perhaps there was one down the street that was open and they were offering to hop in with you to show you where it was...lol.