Cracked Block

1chrisbowers

Cadet
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
17
Alright guys I posted about the water in my motor a week ago. I found out today that the block is cracked in the valley. I have a couple of questions. Can a auto shortblock be used? Can you swap a Mercruiser for a VP without much headache ( found a used entire engine for 600.00)? Would you get just the block or one of the ones off of ebay that comes with heads and all? Anyone had any luck with the ones on ebay, are they worth the money. You can get an entire motor for 1800 plus shipping.

Thanks
Chris
 

zbnutcase

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Sep 19, 2009
Messages
2,055
Re: Cracked Block

Yes you can swap a Merc with a VP all day long, they are the same longblocks when they leave GM, Yes you COULD use a truck shortblock, but unless it has under 20,000 miles on it it would need rebuilt to stand the stress of marine use anyway. Buyer beware, don't forget your engine is "used" too.
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
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Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: Cracked Block

Can a auto shortblock be used?


Look carefully at Nutcase's reply....He said TRUCK shortblock.


If you use an "AUTO" short block, you might get one with a camshaft that *could* give you a reversion problem.

Other than that, using a truck engine, changing the core plugs and using the marine external components, you should be just fine....

If you're going to run in fresh water only then you could probably even get away with the original core plugs and water pump.....Although I would always use the marine pump and brass plugs.....
 

Bondo

Moderator
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Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,082
Re: Cracked Block

Can you swap a Mercruiser for a VP without much headache ( found a used entire engine for 600.00)?

Ayuh,... Only if you Strip it down,+ redress it as a Volvo...
The basic Long Blocks are the Same, but they're Dressed entirely differently...
 

1chrisbowers

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Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
17
Re: Cracked Block

My father is a professional welder. He said he wants to weld it. He is convinced that he can braze it and make it stronger than factory. Has anyone heard of someone doing that?

Thanks
Chris
 

Bifflefan

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May 27, 2009
Messages
2,933
Re: Cracked Block

Being a Ford guy.
What is a "truck block?" As far as i know there are 2 bolt, 4 bolt, and bow-tie blocks from the factory. With acception to the bow-tie they are put in any and all as random as can be. And if you really want to get down to it, the 2 bolt is a better block than the 4 bolt.
The only way to make sure it came out of a truck is to check the VIN number as the original motor matches the vin of the vehicle.
 

Bifflefan

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May 27, 2009
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2,933
Re: Cracked Block

My father is a professional welder. He said he wants to weld it. He is convinced that he can braze it and make it stronger than factory. Has anyone heard of someone doing that?

Thanks
Chris

It has been done many times. And with great success. As he can do it for free or just about free, id do it. It is usually cost prohibative, unless its a very well prept race block or a rare one that cant be replaced.
 

fat fanny

Lieutenant Commander
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Feb 9, 2006
Messages
1,935
Re: Cracked Block

Yes I have! as long as the proper pre and post heating proceduress are followed it should end up being a very strong bond BUT! if these procedures are not follwed correctly and the weld area is'nt preped correctly the results can be a waste of time and effort but if you have the time go for it just make sure that the crack isn't just in visual sight and doesn;t go completely through the block. Good Luck!
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: Cracked Block

Being a Ford guy.
What is a "truck block?" As far as i know there are 2 bolt, 4 bolt, and bow-tie blocks from the factory.


It doesn't really matter if it's a "truck block" or not.

It does matter if it's a "truck" camshaft for reversion protection.

Marine camshafts are very similar to "truck"/RV camshafts in the amount of overlap and/or duration.....

If you're going to run dry-stacks, then it really doesn't matter.



If you're going to braze the block, good luck to you. Sometimes it actually works if you're doing it in a non-structural area............ Cast iron is very hard to braze and even harder to weld unless you can heat the entire casting to the right temp before you do it.....

The shops that do it, have ovens to heat castings to the right temp before welding brazing....

Then after they do it, they bring the temp down very slowly to prevent cracks from uneven cooling.....This is why it's usually not worth it to have a backyard welder or any welder who doesn't have the proper oven to heat the casting......It's also pretty hard to do an engine block since you have to completely disassemble it to heat it..... ..... (I'm also not saying your father is a backyard welder either)


It's just that since you have to take it all apart, AND replacement blocks don't cost all that much, it's usually easier and cheaper to just get another block.....


Cheers,


Rick
 

Bifflefan

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2,933
Re: Cracked Block

It doesn't really matter if it's a "truck block" or not.

Marine camshafts are very similar to "truck"/RV camshafts in the amount of overlap and/or duration.....

Rick

OK, now your talking language I understand.
 

1chrisbowers

Cadet
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
17
Re: Cracked Block

This is kind of the way I am looking at the welding thing. I have to disassemble the motor anyway. If he can weld it and everything goes well it is a bonus. We just bought this boat and have spent most disposable income on it already this year. If the weld holds it can buy me a year or so to help with the cost impact so that I can replace it at a better time financially for my family. If it does not hold I will store it for a while so that I can spend properly on a new engine build. If it does not hold there is a good chance you will not see me on the water this year and I will have some very expensive garage clutter for a while. Boating can be expensive and this year is a prime example.
Chris
 

fat fanny

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1,935
Re: Cracked Block

Chris if you can not afford the new block your on the right track what do you have to lose tear it down clean it up pre heat it and try the braze and or weld. Good luck if you can buy yourself some time go for it
 

jtmarten

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
825
Re: Cracked Block

Why do most folks suggest 'truck' blocks? No such thing. The chance of getting a used engine that was in a car that has a cam large enough to cause reversion is about as good as Obama getting re-elected. The overlap has to be huge to get reversion. I ran a 280/290 duration, 112 lobe sep cam in a jet with thru-hulls with no reversion. Six yrs of running it hard with no issues.
It seems there is less chatter about reversion on performance boating forums where folks are regularly building 400+hp small blocks and 600+hp big blocks. I'm just curious why its so prevalent here, when most are using run-of-the-mill, stock, low performance engines (myself included) that have no chance for water reversion.
 

nofuss

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
141
Re: Cracked Block

ok I am just asking here as the discussion is on this thread, I am a bit confused about the truck block VS car block. which i believe to be the same block. and then the truck cam to car cam, I understand the difference. however If you already have a marine engine with a cam in it, whats the issue with reusing the marine cam from your engine. instead of using the one from the "new" block. Car engines normally get less abuse and I think they should be a better choice.
 

1chrisbowers

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Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
17
Re: Cracked Block

I did not mean for this to become such a heated debate over blocks. My main question is is there any difference in the blocks between auto and marine. When I do change the block I plan on using the existing cam and crank and just adding new seals and bearings. I do not know of any problems with the current cam or crank. You also seem to find more auto blocks than ones that specifiy marine out there. The auto ones are also cheaper.
I do wish to tell everyone thank you also. I will let you know how the weld job goes.
If the weld job does not go well are the manuels on here somewhere? I am going to need them for torq specs and such.

Thank You
Chris
 

fat fanny

Lieutenant Commander
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1,935
Re: Cracked Block

@ the top of this forum adults only thread 1st one!!!
 

carolynrose

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
99
Re: Cracked Block

A GM truck engine block is a 4-bolt (mains) block. Now these blocks could have come in a car or a truck. But us GM guys refer to all 4-bolt main motors as truck "blocks". When you are replacing a motor in a GM equipped boat it most defenitely should be a truck block. Cams and heads can be changed to what you need. But a GM boat motor should always be a truck block.
 

jtmarten

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
825
Re: Cracked Block

Both can be found with the 'Performance' 4-bolt blocks. A 2-bolt block can handle 500hp and up to 6K rpm, you'll need a 4-bolt block if you're going beyond that.
 

1chrisbowers

Cadet
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
17
Re: Cracked Block

If anyone in the Dallas area gets board give me a call pulling a motor by myself is going to be fun.
 
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