Cracking around prop

[stourm]

Re: Cracking around prop

Well guys I screwed up and now I am stuck. I don't really have the knowledge to make this motor right probably and I really don't have extra money to sink into buying another motor or a lot of parts. We were looking for a decent boat and motor and I thought that I had bought that. I know now that I am stuck. I bought a nice yard ornament apparently. This disgusts me to the point I almost want to give it away and never deal with a boat again to be honest. All I wanted to do was get a boat that was decent enough I could take it out on weekends sometimes. Oh well, Caveat Emptor.

I drained the lower unit of oil and surprisingly it was fine. Looked like what you would expect old oil to look like and no sign of water in it. The owner said that he kept it in a covered slip throughout the fishing season and when I asked if it ever took on water he said that it didn't. This is a 17' Procraft so the motor may just be heavier than what it is rated for? It's a 140 hp motor but I wasn't able to find any specs for this boat to see its rating when I looked. It is a 1980 model 17' 1700 series Procraft. More pictures below of the oil from the lower and the boat itself, just so you can see what I wasted my money on.

 

[cribber]

Re: Cracking around prop

That's a sweet looking boat!!! So don't think you wasted your money. Just gotta take care of the lower unit and looks like you should be fine. Follow the experts advice here and you'll be on the water in no time.

 

[stourm]

Re: Cracking around prop

I thought it was Cribber when I was looking it over. Had I known to pay better attention to the motor, and what to look for, I would have passed it up. In the boat's defense, everything else works well. The trailer, minus the rust, was in fairly decent shape. The carpet was good. The floor seems very solid, hell even the horn still works. Just that bloody motor....

I don't want any of you guys to think I don't appreciate everything you are doing to help me. I really am taking in everything and appreciate your taking the time to answer. Try to overlook my pessimism, I am just a little angry with the whole situation right now and trying to figure out how to remedy it.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Cracking around prop

How about a photo from the side at the rear end with the outboard tilted fully down so we can see where the cav plate is in relation to the keel.
There has to be a reason the waterline is so high on the leg.

Boat looks great. You should see the junk I bought for $700.
We pay for our mistakes, but self pity serves no-one but the self.
So far I've spent $400 for a composite transom and $200 for resin and plywood to replace the stringers, tell the truth I now enjoy it.
When I am done it will be better than new, still looks like crap.

Swapping the leg is no big deal. Get a factory service manual from kencook.com , they are good engines.

 

[splitshot]

Re: Cracking around prop

GOOD BUY !!!! that boat appears to be super clean..if its as clean as the pictures look i would have bought it...having to put a foot on is no big deal plus you'll learn how to do it (you'll have to do it every 2 years for the water pump anyways)...when i did mine for the first time i was scared but i had the manual right beside me and it was a breeze..

I know i'll get hammered for this but...you might be able to get by with taking it out a few times with that foot until you get another...the gear oil looks better than i thought it would...but I wouldnt go far,(no farther than you could get back with your trolling motor) and if all else fails you will have to limp back to the dock with the trolling motor (if something were to break or come apart) seen plenty of guys trolling back to the dock....the reason i say this is i know you are wanting to use the boat...just like i was when i got mine....man thats a clean boat let us know how it goes and what you decide to do

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Cracking around prop

I'm glad you posted the pics of the boat, because it looks like its in pretty good shape. The trailer doesn't look too bad either. If the floor, stringers and transom in the boat are fine, you may have done Ok on the price paid.

What I would do at this point, is to find someone in your area that does quality fiberglass repairs on boats. Have that person look the boat over closely, even if it costs you some money. If you get a clean bill of health, you are a very long way towards turning a potential mistake into something that you can bail yourself out of.

One thing I would like to see, is a photo of the boat from the rear. Make the shot wide enough for us to look for the waterline on the transom. Lower the motor when you do this, so that we can see were the waterline on the motor is, compared to the one on the boat. What I am looking to see, is if the boat was sitting unnaturally low at the transom. While excessive engine weight could be the answer, I just surfed the web and found some info that leads me to believe that max rated power for your boat is either 140hp or 150hp. That being the case, an ERude 140 should not be a problem on it.

On the issue of corrosion in the midsection v. the swivel bracket and transom bracket, one thought that ocurred to me after I wrote my last post, is that the upper and lower ends of the swivel bracket are secured to the midsection via rubber isolation dampers. There are bolts that pass through them, but the rubber may have insulated agaist galvanic corrosion to some degree.

Let's keep exploring this situation and exchanging info - we may be able to help you salvage this situation, after all.

 

[stourm]

Re: Cracking around prop

It's gone and gotten dark on me here, but I will take the picture of the back of the boat with the motor down so that you can see where the waterline is tomorrow. One thing I thought of though is that it's possible, if this was a replacement motor on this boat for the original, that it could have gotten a lot of the corrosion before it was ever mounted on this one. The reason I think that might be possible is because several people have asked about it being in saltwater. Around here it would have only been in freshwater, but may very well have sat in a slip with the motor down. So its possible that the damage has been done for a very long time. The person that owned this boat was an older man, probably about 70 years old or so, and fished out of it regularly. I doubt it has been pressed very hard though. Would a motor sitting in a freshwater slip, let all the way down, corrode like this over the amount of say...18 years? Seeing as how its aluminum I can't see that it would unless it had some stray current running around the outside of it?

 

[Big Bubba]

Re: Cracking around prop

Stourm,
You know what I would do? I would go ahead and run the motor the way it is and who knows it might be alright until you find you another motor to go on it. Here is an example with me that I can use. Last year I bought a really nice 20 footer 1991 Lowes for Johnson pontoon boat that the only thing I didn't like with it was the 1991, 25 horsepower Johnson motor on the back of it. So guess what I did? I cleaned up the motor and put it on Craigs list for $400.00 and the lower unit was eaten up pretty good on it also but the main reason I got rid of that motor is I thought it would be way under powered and it sold within 48 hours of being posted. After I sold it I found a really nice 1983 year about a week later, 70 horsepower Johnson outboard 3 cylinder engine that you could eat off of it and ran nicely when cranked up in the mans yard. I bout it for $750.00 which I had to put another $350.00 out of my pocket into it and bolted it up to my Pontoon Boat and existing controls since they were nicer and it worked great. I used that same motor, 1983, 70 horsepower Johnson last year and it ran great and never missed a beat, the best money I spent and still happy with the whole set-up, motor and Pontoon boat. All I am going to do this year before I get out on the water with her and as assurance for me is to replace the water pump impeller. I already changed the gear lube out twice last year becuase I am a worry ward about stuff before I used it for the first time and again at the end of the boating season before the hard winter set in. So you could do that and find you a nice engine or you could part yours out. Just keep your options opened. You can find really nice used outboards out there really cheap if you keep your eyes open. Let us know what you find or do. Take care, Bob

 

[cribber]

Re: Cracking around prop

Stourm,

Freshen the fluids, put it back together and enjoy. Start shopping for a lower unit in the mean time cuz we know it will need to be replaced eventually. I think ya got a good deal and need to invest a few more Jacksons every couple of weeks to get her back in tip top shape by the summer season. Just take it one thing at a time and fix whatever needs attention and you'll be fine.

John...

 

[jonesg]

Re: Cracking around prop

I would take it easy, it will cavitate and eat the prop if run wide open.


If the engine sat that low in the water I suspect the transom would be under water, its gotta be from another boat/engine. Unless the engine is mounted way off, too low.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Cracking around prop

I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if the motor had been on another boat. As I mentioned before, my thought is a toon, but I would also add that a houseboat is another distinct possibility.

I wouldn't expect that level of corrosion from freshwater immersion in the short term, but yes, I do think you could experience it over many, many years.

Post your transom pics as soon as you can and let's try to answer the boat issues for now.

 

[Sandhammaren05]

Re: Cracking around prop

Gearcase must be replaced. Would guess waterpump and all seals are shot too.

I also posted this in the prop section of the general board before I found the maintenance and repair section below it so sorry for the double post. This weekend my wife and I bought our first boat. It is a used boat, but I thought that it was in good shape and a good buy for the price. It is a 1980 Procraft, 17' long with a 140 hp Evenrude engine. The floor was solid, all the electronics work, and it was garage kept for most of its life when it wasn't being used for fishing. According to the owner it was kept in a covered slip during the fishing season. The engine runs good, but there is severe oxidation all down the engine from where it sat in the water in the slip. I am a little worried about some cracking around the prop area that appears to have resulted from years sitting in the water. I don't know enough about boats yet to know whether or not this is an issue, and if so, what I should do about it. I am going to try to post some pictures here for you guys and really hope to hear back from the very seasoned and expert boaters here at iBoats so I don't make a rookie mistake and ruin the motor. Oh, by the way, I paid $1600 for this boat and motor along with three older depth finders, boat cover, foot powered trolling motor, and trailer. Do you guys think it was a good buy? Thanks for any help you guys can offer.
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[stourm]

Re: Cracking around prop

You guys are really good. I didn't even notice that the waterline on the boat and on the engine didn't match up at all. I took the pictures you guys asked for with the engine all the way down and will post them here. I am not sure how low a boat usually sits in the water but it appears that it doesn't sit as low as you first suspected from the pictures that I submitted of the engine by itself tilted up. My guess now that you have brought it to my attention is that this motor received the bulk of its damage on another boat. Would you guys agree? From the pictures, does it look as if the boat was sitting too low? Thanks again for the responses.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Cracking around prop

You might want to take the boat to water and see how it floats, which will help to limit the guesswork. Make sure the plug is in.

 

[stourm]

Re: Cracking around prop

I plan to do just that as soon as the temperature gets above 35 degrees for any period of time. Still frigid here in western TN. I also have to refill the lower unit with oil after draining it to see what kind of shape it was in. Jay_merril had asked me to post the transom pics so I hope that he chimes on this post. I am looking forward to hearing his take on the pictures. I also Tried building a decent boat cover support structure to help water from pooling up on my cover. I made it from PVC and hope it works.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Cracking around prop

But it does line up. Exactly. Your motor is not down all the way, so it looks like the line on the midsection is higher than on the boat. Now look at the corrosion line in the transom bracket and look at the faint white line (water mark) across your transom - the two line up perfectly.

I think this boat was either kept on somekind of incline ramp at the lake, with the stern still in the water, or the boat was allowed to partially fill with rainwater all of the time, causing it to sit low at the stern. Regardless of what was done, however, the owner took terrible care of it.

I'll go back to my earlier recommendation to have someone with expertise check the stringers, floor and transom. The rest of the boat looks OK, but you need to make sure those things are solid. If they are, you have something to work with.

I know you don't want to hear this, but I would not spend a lot of money on that motor, I also urge you to make sure that the lower mount on the swivel bracket is solid. I'm not just saying this to be an alarmist - I recently had a swivel bracket fail at the tilting point, where it meets the transom bracket. I hit something under water, and when it let go, the motor cocked to one side, causing the boat to do a 360 in little more than its own length. I was nearly thrown out of the boat and only managed to stay aboard, because I was holding both the steering wheel and the windshield. Had anyone else been in the boat with me, I am sure they would have gone over the side and I might have hit them.

If you start thinking in terms of replacing the motor, you don't have to go with such a large outboard. There are tons of 3 cylinder OMC motors around and some can be purchased for very good prices. While its true that a 70hp motor isn't going to push the boat the way a 140 would, it will still go fast enough.

PS: I just looked at the pics again after posting. One thing that occurs to me is that its really hard to judge the condition of the midsection from a few photos. I have seen enough of the gearbox to be comfortable in pronouncing it "toast," but I could be wrong about the midsection.

So, here's my current thought - take the rig to your local OMC/BRP dealer and have them look at it. Ask them if they think the rest of the motor is salvageable. If they say it is, go on a hunt for a used gearbox, but don't spend major money on one. You may have to shop a bit, and walk away from a few deals, but you can probably find something for a few hundred dollars that will be serviceable for at least a few years.

Do be sure to ask them to offer their thoughts on that swivel bracket, though.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Cracking around prop

Maybe the PO had 3 batteries stored at the transom, full fuel tank and a few gallons of rainwater. The engine might be a bit heavy for that hull, hence the low waterline. Left for a season or two with old anodes.

 

[BigB9000]

Re: Cracking around prop

Im guessing the engine is way to big.
Of for storage they sank the boat.


Im guessing your not going to get the bolts off the lower unit without breaking the bolts into the mid section. And thats a nightmare to deal with

 

[stourm]

Re: Cracking around prop

Yes there are three batteries stored in the back-end of the boat, and it has like a 20 - 30 gallon fuel tank I think. I am not sure about this boat, but I had read a 1978 model procraft like this one had between 22 and 30 gallon fuel cell so I figure this one is probably similar. I haven't put it in the water yet but it'd be interesting to see if the boat sits that low under a standard load without occupants. That should let me know whether or not it might have sat with rainwater in it. The owner said that it sat all fishing season in a covered slip and he only took it out at the end of the fishing season, but it was garage kept after that until the next spring. There is always the possibility that rain swept into the boat from a heavy rain. I am on the fence about this. Someone was nice enough earlier in this forum to post a lower unit for sale about 4 hours from here on Ebay. They also had a midsection for sale that matched it. Only problem is I am still not sure if those pieces will fit on my motor. They were from a 125 hp evinrude and mine is a 140 hp. The people selling it didn't know the year the motor was.

 

[stourm]

Re: Cracking around prop

Alright guys, need your advice. This lower unit, and other miscellaneous parts, were listed on Ebay. No one bid on them and the auction closed while I was in contact with the seller trying to determine if they would fit my engine. I called the number this morning and talked to the seller about these parts. He said that one of the cylinders failed on this motor and it was going to cost too much to repair the power head so he was parting it out and selling the parts. He said he would sell the lower unit to me for $150 and whatever else I needed he would make me a good deal on because he didn't need them anymore. I want to know what you guys think about this and if you think they would fit my motor. I will also put pictures of what he had listed on Ebay below. He said he would give me plenty of time to make sure that everything would fit my motor before he relisted it to give me a chance to buy it if it would work for me.

Mine is a 1977, 140 hp Evinrude with electric tilt and trim. As far as I know it runs just fine. Here is what I know about the Ebay one, "I am selling a lower unit for Evinrude 125hp V4.This unit is in very good condition and you can use it for standard Evinrude or Sport Evinrude. The metal pipe is 19 inches long if you count the top of the water pump, and is 3/4 of a inch wide. I have lots of other parts for Evinrude motor, not including the power head because it is broke."