Crimp large wire

Scaaty

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
5,180
Re: Crimp large wire

Its not over...where and how you going to store that battery? Thats worth another 60 posts<br /> :D :D :D :D
 

jlinder

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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1,086
Re: Crimp large wire

But it appears that we have an answer to the solder question. <br /><br />A properly done crimp only connection that is properly sealed does work well and lasts.<br /><br />I'm happy if we can just get one question put to bed.
 

31900

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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May 23, 2003
Messages
167
Re: Crimp large wire

Just do your own thing<br /><br />Amen
 

demsvmejm

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Re: Crimp large wire

Originally posted by Jack L:<br /> But it appears that we have an answer to the solder question. <br /><br />A properly done crimp only connection that is properly sealed does work well and lasts.<br /><br />I'm happy if we can just get one question put to bed.
The only problem is "Properly done". If you're not a professional, the chances of getting it "Properly done" is greatly reduced. Then again, from the tone of the crimp and shrinktube seal posts, your not interested in taking the time to do the repair properly, with appropriate preparation, just the easiest way.<br />If you're gonna ignore expert, professional (from more people than just me) advice and listen only to like minded posts, why ask the question to begin with? <br />A mechanic friend of mine concurred with me that the BEST way to peform this battery cable repair is to solder the lug on. As the crimp corrodes, as will happen, the chances of arcing increase. I can't remember the exact term, but the major automobile manufacturers are recognizing that their connectors, even with weather-pack seals, develop nearly invisible corrosion and therefore can develop excess resistance.<br />But those of you who want to believe your point of view, and ignore anything else can go ahead and cut corners by crimping only. You won't remove condensation, humidity and any other moisture present in the crimp. The heatshrink tubing will seal the moisture in, and the heat required to shrink the tubing is insufficient to boil off any moisure before it is sealed in. It WILL corrode, and there will be problems. The Coastie's testament to crimping only doesn't mention the maintenance that is performed on those batteries. No emergency responder organization will allow neglect of a critical component like the boat's bank of batteries. He may never have seen the maintenance, but it happens.<br />You all go ahead and take the short cuts, I will stick to the recognized professional repair method and protect my reputation for doing the right job, the RIGHT way, the first time. If you can't do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it the second time? Sunday afternoon, miles from the launch?
 

Realgun

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Jul 31, 2003
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2,484
Re: Crimp large wire

Where I live cars don't die from rust they die from old age and neglect! What moisture? The air here is usually 20% or less moisture. True we have little water in which to boat but I would rather not sweat myself to death at 80 degrees. :D We can play outside when it near a 100. Now I can tell A proper crimp I give a pull on the wire and if it moves I redo it. <br /><br />I hope the wire does corrode twenty miles from the launch. That means the water in the lake is finally up ! :) And don't think I will not have the tools and equipment to repair it. I will worry more about the old force motor than the crimped battery wire! Don't Dis my FORCE it runs and is paid for. And now Maintained.
 

demsvmejm

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Re: Crimp large wire

Originally posted by Realgun:<br /> Where I live cars don't die from rust they die from old age and neglect! What moisture? The air here is usually 20% or less moisture. True we have little water in which to boat but I would rather not sweat myself to death at 80 degrees. :D We can play outside when it near a 100. Now I can tell A proper crimp I give a pull on the wire and if it moves I redo it.
That's the difference between a professional and an I-know-enough-to-be-dangerous. The former knows how to do what they are doing, and will listen to other professionals. The later thinks they know what they are doing and won't listen to the professionals, because they might have to face the truth.<br /><br />I don't know why I waste my 1's and 0's on you guys. Nothing will change your minds and cause you to consider and opposing point of view, regardless of how learned.
 

Realgun

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Re: Crimp large wire

You cannot tell me that the Crimp this guy made with the tool I have shown you above is going to cause problems for the aplication I am doing. <br /><br />I still don't know the proper method. And you are wasteing my 1's and 0's. :D
 

waterone1@aol.com

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Oct 10, 2004
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1,235
Re: Crimp large wire

I can't believe I am bored enough to post on this question. I scrolled right down to the bottom of the page without reading a single post (other than the original question). Why, because what seams like an inocent question gets debated on here over and over again. Crimp it, solder it, it doesn't matter. What really matters is that you do a good job. Guess what, everything on a boat will eventually break, and that breakdown will in some cases put everyone onboard at risk, driving a car to church will put everyone at risk. If you clean everything and use the propper crimp tool, it will last for many years....it will then break. If you do the same cleanup, and do a good clean solder joint it will last for many years...then break. Unless you own your boat for 20 years, you will most likely never have to fix this problem again....but you will be fixing other things....as they break. If you buy a used boat....guess what....things will break. Somehow, I just know from past experience that someone will say something about solder joints and heat....I replace my soldering iron tip once or twice a year....I think it is a 700 degree tip and that is for small electronics, for a large connection I would be using a torch. If your battery connection is getting anywhere close to several hundred degrees (enough to melt the solder) I think you have a much larger worry than if your solder is going to melt. On the other hand, if you use the correct crimping tool for a double ought cable, the amount of force and vibration to pull that wire out of there would be something that NASA might be concerned with durring a rocket launch. There are usually some pretty smart people on this forum, is everyone waiting for a real question and passing their time debating this as something to do, or do you really believe that you can change someone's mind on this issue ?
 

crab bait

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Feb 5, 2002
Messages
3,831
Re: Crimp large wire

it ain't about breakin'.. it's about corrodsion..<br /><br />solder makes everything as one..unit.. an one with the universe ,, for all eternity..forever an ever.. amen..
 

jlinder

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Re: Crimp large wire

David,<br /><br />My request for people with real experience was to try to find out what happens in real life. Everyone seems to have opinions on this, I was trying to find examples, not just opinions.<br /><br />Your response that says I am trying to take short cuts is absurd. You claim I am trying to take the easy way because it is not your way. And what do you offer as proof that your way is the best? A mechanic friend of yours agreed with you. So that makes it right, and everyone else is wrong.<br /><br />You talk about the difference between professionals and an I-know-enough-to-be-dangerous person. Are you the former or latter? You say the former listens to other experts. That is what we are trying to find out - information from other experts. You are trying to tell us to be quiet and just do it your way.<br />(BTW - the only definite expert opinions I know of are the regs, and they call for crimp)<br /><br />I am just asking a simple question - who has experience with electrical connections that have been challenged by the test of time and what did you find out? (You know, find out opinions from other experts?)<br /><br />The only answer I got was from 18rabbit with crimp only connections that worked well. Not one proponant of the solder method answered with experience to the contrary.<br /><br />If you have experience, please share. If not don't insult everyone who doesn't agree with you.
 

jlinder

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Re: Crimp large wire

waterone1,<br /><br />I agree with you, and I guess I should apologize for continuing a discussion on a subject that I should realize will never be done. People will cling to their opinions no matter what. I was just trying to discover the best way for myself.<br /><br />You are right about one thing - whatever you do just do it right and it will last a long time.
 

Ralph 123

Captain
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Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Crimp large wire

Here is what I use. About $30 or so any place that sells Ancor Marine Products:<br /><br />
lug_crimper.jpg
 

briannh1234

Petty Officer 1st Class
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May 19, 2003
Messages
233
Re: Crimp large wire

I have soldering experience to the contrary. I have crimped and soldiered and shrink wrapped 2 gage cable to 2 gage lugs. It's only been together for about 3-4 years now. So far - no problems. Can't see any greenies, but they would be under the shrink wrap anyway. Still as solid as the day I soldiered it.<br /><br />This 2 gage cable is on my truck and used to power my electric trailer winch.
 

Ralph 123

Captain
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Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Crimp large wire

If you crimp and solder just be careful not to overheat:<br /><br />
As mentioned, crimping action work hardens the connector barrel, making the joint mechanical strong and stable. If you solder a crimped joint, you may, in heating the connector, soften the copper, making the joint loosen. Now it is the solder only which provides the strength of the joint. But if the joint is subjected to vibration, the solder, in absorbing mechanical energy over a period of time, may crystallize, and the joint may actually fail altogether.
 

jlinder

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Re: Crimp large wire

My concerns are this:<br /><br />1. Crimp only. Works just fine if you do it right. Hard to do wrong with the right tool, almost impossible to do right with the wrong tool.<br /><br />2. Solder with crimp. Works just find if you do it right. But can weaken the crimp by weakening the barrel. Also, easy to do wrong if you don't have soldering experience.<br /><br />My preference for crimp only is that done with the right tools I suspect you would get a higher incidence of good crimps.
 

Mr.Ladyfish

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848
Re: Crimp large wire

I got an idea. Crimp/solder one cable, crimp only the other. Report back in 5 years. :D
 

Realgun

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Jul 31, 2003
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Re: Crimp large wire

It is important to get a good connection between the lug and cable. Soldering is not the answer. A home workshop, and even many professional shops, will not have the equipment to do this properly. Without the right equipment, you cannot get the copper all evenly heated to an adequate degree, and you will end up with a "cold joint". In addition, the solder will not coat the cable fibers evenly. However, it will "wick" up a couple of inches into the insulation, making the cable stiff and brittle at a critical connecting point. Any of these problems can cause resistance, heat, and possible damaged connections and batteries.<br /> <br />Squeeze-type crimpers can make solid connections. However, they are expensive, large, unwieldy, and require a lot of strength to use. <br />This tool holds the lug in place in a cradle, and hold a punch in a sleeve above. Several solid blows from a hammer on the punch will make a secure connection that will last for years. If you were to cut a crimped lug in half, you would see that the copper fibers of the cable have been compressed into a solid block of copper, filling the lug barrel.<br /> <br />
 

tengals123

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Jan 26, 2005
Messages
860
Re: Crimp large wire

i just saw a new set of cables at a major marine store here in australia. Just to let you know, i had a super look at the connection to the lug, NO SOLDER! I really wont tell you how i found out though. cheers
 

demsvmejm

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Messages
831
Re: Crimp large wire

Originally posted by tengals123:<br /> i just saw a new set of cables at a major marine store here in australia. Just to let you know, i had a super look at the connection to the lug, NO SOLDER! I really wont tell you how i found out though. cheers
It doesn't take much to explaint why. To solder the connection would take additional material (extra $$) additional manufacturing procedures (extra $$) and additional time (extra $$). It is not hard to see with all the extra effort and expense the profit margin woul ddiminish or the cost would rise. Neither one is acceptable to the manufacturer. The engineers' directive - Faster, lighter and CHEAPER!
 
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