CUT AND RUN

[CJY]

Re: CUT AND RUN

12,

Troll? Did you call OJ's MJF thread a troll? Did you call speedwagon's thread a troll? Both of which you posted to.

This is no more a troll than any of those others you enjoy posting to.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: CUT AND RUN

[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Kiwi03/JWB.jpg[/IMG][/url Cheers Phillip

 

[txswinner]

Re: CUT AND RUN

I am not at all sure the people of Iraq are better off today than before the invasion. They were not dying in the streets, they had good transportation, they had schools, electricity and drinking water.

Were the like those of us in this country, probably not, but did they want to be.

They are now in a state of civil war. Even the righties and generals agree with this. Why are they in a state of civil war?

Saddam killed all relatives of those who tried to assisinate him. No not our way but that is the way it is done in the middle east.

Did he support attacks on Isreal, Yes. Was he apart of 9/11, No.

AGAIN, this administration said we invaded to enforce the order against Saddam on WMD. We found none.

Tell me again what are our goals and the plan to accomplish them. W supporters the time for a plan is BEFORE the attack. What you are doing now is trying to cover your azz.

Call it Cut and Run, but at least it is a plan. Tell me what your plan was, is or will be and how we will know when it is accomplished.

Only thing we have done is make the oil industry more powerful and richer. Wait who were the friends of this administration. Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, smells like a duck. Hmmmm wonder what it is.

BRING HOME THE TROOPS.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: CUT AND RUN

Tx, for the coalition, this war is going to end in one of 2 ways.
Coalition forces will be heavily defeated and survivors escape with what they are wearing, OR they will withdraw in an orderly fashion, leaving most of their gear behind in a last minute scramble, but declaring a Victory.
It can not end any differently.

I vividly recall watching Colin Powell at the UN telling us "the facts".
I watched that many times, probably like the rest of the world.
How could such an Officer and Gentleman of such integrity and intelligence be forced in to being such a liar in front of the whole world, and the whole world knew it right then and there.

Something is very wrong with the attitude and thinking of the current leadership.
Americans are being lied to.
I don't believe it cares how many of its people die or are maimed.

As for a solution to this sorry situation, I think the time is coming when cut and run will be the only option.
What another absolute shambles, and we wonder what breeds extremist terrorists who hate us........Jezzzzzzzzz

If the boot-was-on-the-other-foot, I guess everyone on this board would be an extremist-christian-terrorist doing the same dam.ned thing.
Cheers
Phillip

Cheers
Phillip

 

[crunch]

Re: CUT AND RUN

Thank you Phil Fonda... I'm sure Jane is proud of you, but I'll bet your fellow countrymen that are fighting for your freedom and the safety of your loved ones would have a different view of things.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: CUT AND RUN

Thanks c/crunch.
Actually I am a Viet Nam Veteran myself, so i have fond recollections of Dear Jane, but unlike her, I will not fratanise with nor have any love or care for the opposition.
I can recognise a load of B/S when I hear it, plus, no matter how hard you flog this 'dead horse', the bxggar is not going to get up and win, and as time passes, options narrow and more kids get bagged-and-tagged.
Cheers
Phillip

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: CUT AND RUN

Although this subject is about climate change, the same applies to the Iraqi situation. The little fellow at the back is our Prime Minister.
Last week a poll showed over 70% of us down-under were against this war.
As for me: what is the solution?, because what we are doing is not working.
Cheers
Phillip
null

http://www.[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Kiwi03/JWB3.jpg[/IMG]

 

[crunch]

Re: CUT AND RUN

Actually I am a Viet Nam Veteran myself, so i have fond recollections of Dear Jane, but unlike her, I will not fratanise with nor have any love or care for the opposition.

Re-read your previous posts and say that again with a straight face... are you a politician?

 

[crunch]

Re: CUT AND RUN

[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Kiwi03/JWB.jpg[/IMG][/url Cheers Phillip[/quote]

 

[JB]

Re: CUT AND RUN

A couple of notes about 'Nam.

1. Richard Nixon cut a deal with NVN (the "Paris" accord) . They agreed to not interfere in the affairs of SVN in return for us withdrawing. The war stopped (on paper), we withdrew. That is not cutting and running.

2. NVN then invaded and easily conquered and annexed SVN. SVN was abandoned by the Dem controlled congress.

About Iraq.

If the "insurgent" terrorists agreed to stop their attacks on coalition forces and Iraqi government forces if we left we would probably promptly leave .

Iran and Syria would then invade "to stop the civil war" and establish the Islamic Theocracy they both want in Iraq. Taliban reborn.

I don't have an answer to the "civil war" between the different denominations of Islam, but I agree that it is not what we are there for. I think we are there to support the elected government until it can secure itself. That is what my view of "staying the course" is.

I read and hear a lot about a "change in course" that is needed, but no explanation of what the change should be, other than the push to abandon the elected government of Iraq as the Dem. Congress did S. Viet Nam.

To support a change in course I would have to have a clear idea what we were changing to, and it could not include abandoning Iraq to anarchy.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: CUT AND RUN

There will eventually come a time when the American Government, regardless of which political party controls the Whitehouse, the House of representatives or the Senate, will have to balance the financial cost of the Iraq campaigne and the interest payments to our foreign paymasters.
It seems to me that fiscally responsibily conservatives and compassionate conservatives are without a doubt two totally different kettles of fish.

 

[txswinner]

Re: CUT AND RUN

JB,

1. I disagree as we did cut and run even with paper treaty. In fact we left as our embassy was overrun and left loads of property (military equipment, etc) in a rapid redeployment. We can play with words all day but it is the same way we eventually leave Iraq. A war that can not be won.

2. I agree only the overthrow occurred or was occurring as our forces were trying to get out. History shows many SV who wanted out did not. (As always is the case, those with money did generally escape on our aircraft).

3. I agree that terrorist numbers in Iraq would leave as soon as our troops are out. Like it or not, they are fighting for a cause.

4. Yes I am afraid Iran and Syria would overrun Iraq. That is why W's administration should never have lied to the American people and started this war. W should have listened to his Father. Instead he listened to really poor advisors (IMO).

5.Solution to Civil War, I do not know. I do know that the real President Bush foresaw this and that is why he did not wipe out Saddam and his administration earlier. Again W should have listened to his father instead of the "Chickenhawks" Rummy and Cheney.

6. The problem with change in course is we have no course now. Stand and die is not a plan, it is stupidity. I hate the fact that all I can see is "Cut and Run" but escalation is out of the question at this point. We proved in VN the "Body Count" (kill more of them than us killed) does not work.

7. I am with you and if there is a plan better than "Cut and Run" lets hear it. The next administration policy, "holding the course", escalation just to put in more troops, etc. are not acceptable.

8. JB, I believe you and I can finally agree on at least one thing for certain. We have knocked the bottom out of a hornets nest and haven't a clue what to do to stop the stinging. Me, I am not going to try to kill the hornets, I am going to get away from them and defend myself from stinging me in the future.

God bless America, BRING HOME THE TROOPS

 

[txswinner]

Re: CUT AND RUN

Crunch, I think you are out of contact with reality and would guess you have never loaded or lifted a body bag in combat.

Phil, I think we are probably in the 70% to 75% against the war here as well. Does not take a genius to see what a snafu we have.

I met a few of your troopers in SE Asia, I like the way they talked.

 

[crunch]

Re: CUT AND RUN

Crunch, I think you are out of contact with reality and would guess you have never loaded or lifted a body bag in combat.

Let me get this straight here Tex, Just assuming as you say I haven't loaded body bags in combat, then I have no right to defend my Country and CIC? While assuming you have loaded body bags in combat you have the right to tear down your Country and CIC.

And you say I'm out of touch with reality?... you funny guy.

 

[PW2]

Re: CUT AND RUN

A couple of notes about 'Nam.

1. Richard Nixon cut a deal with NVN (the "Paris" accord) . They agreed to not interfere in the affairs of SVN in return for us withdrawing. The war stopped (on paper), we withdrew. That is not cutting and running.

2. NVN then invaded and easily conquered and annexed SVN. SVN was abandoned by the Dem controlled congress.

About Iraq.

If the "insurgent" terrorists agreed to stop their attacks on coalition forces and Iraqi government forces if we left we would probably promptly leave .

Iran and Syria would then invade "to stop the civil war" and establish the Islamic Theocracy they both want in Iraq. Taliban reborn.

I don't have an answer to the "civil war" between the different denominations of Islam, but I agree that it is not what we are there for. I think we are there to support the elected government until it can secure itself. That is what my view of "staying the course" is.

I read and hear a lot about a "change in course" that is needed, but no explanation of what the change should be, other than the push to abandon the elected government of Iraq as the Dem. Congress did S. Viet Nam.

To support a change in course I would have to have a clear idea what we were changing to, and it could not include abandoning Iraq to anarchy.

FTR, JB, you are pretty accurately describing Murtha's redeployment plan, which has been labeled by the right as "cut and run"

His plan has us keeping foreign fighters out, as well as Alqaida or any other terrorist groups, with force as necessary. Iraq needs to figure their own government out, and we have no business being involved in their civil war. Al qaida is not the enemy that is killing the majority of our troops. It's the Shia and Sunni factions that are killing each other, and us if we get in the way

I think it would become clear if we were able to have an honest debate on the issue, instead of the slogan driven "debate" we have had.

His plan may not be perfect, and it certainly may not be easy, but it certainly is not "cut and run"

 

[crunch]

Re: CUT AND RUN

U.S. troops should stay longer in Iraq: Talabani

http://today.reuters.com/news/artic..._0_US-IRAQ-FRANCE-TALABANI.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

 

[oddjob]

Re: CUT AND RUN

PW quote:

(MURTHA) His plan may not be perfect, and it certainly may not be easy, but it certainly is not "cut and run"

You just discribed the plan we already have....only diff. is the political party.

 

[crunch]

Re: CUT AND RUN

PW quote:

(MURTHA) His plan may not be perfect, and it certainly may not be easy, but it certainly is not "cut and run"

You just discribed the plan we already have....only diff. is the political party.

Shhhhhh... you weren’t supposed to notice that.

 

[JB]

Re: CUT AND RUN

Howdy txswinner

1.&2. Our combat troops were withdrawn from combat and mostly from SVN before NVN reinvaded. You seem to think the NVN overwhelmed us. It didn't, it overwhelmed SVN. Don't confuse the diplomatic corps with the Marine Corps.

4. GWB did not lie to us. That is a lie that I am dang tired of hearing.

What he told us was what he believed and most of the world believed. Bad intelligence and disinformation planted by Saddam himself had ALL OF US believing it. Congress overwhelmingly approved the use of force to get Saddam disarmed and out of power.

8. The hornet nest? Well I am gonna stay and try to protect the folks who elected the government the hornets are trying to kill, at least until they can protect themselves. After all, it was we who knocked it over. Not them.

 

[treedancer]

Re: CUT AND RUN

I think that someone lied to get us in this war, now that were in it we should not bale on our responsibilities.

I believe it was Secretary of State Colin Powell that said to president Bush on Aug 5,2002 "You break it, you bought it."