Dems refuse to go on Fox

[RubberFrog]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

Sure is a lot of pre-whining in here.

 

[treedancer]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

Quote Gabby

<<Republicans don't engage in social engineering nor do they make silly promises about taking care of everyone like the dems do.>>

O K….. Lets have a closer look at that statement if you don’t mind. How about lets look at how the Republicans look at social engineering as compared to how democrats look at the same subject, specifically the Bush administrations attempt at it.

Looks to me that the democrats are into making this country a little better for the citizens of this country, as apposed to the republicans going off and trying too install democracy on countries that have not ask us for any help and have no desire for our help.

Too me that almost looks like social engineering on a much grander scale, one could almost call it . Republican social engineering at its sociopath finest. I’ll give you a few quotes from President Bush too make my point on his social engineering.

"If we go into battle as a last resort we will confront an enemy capable of irrational miscalculations, capable of terrible deeds."
- George W. Bush, October 16, 2002.


And, as a last resort, we must be willing to use military force. We are doing everything we can to avoid war in Iraq. But if Saddam Hussein does not disarm peacefully, he will be disarmed by force."
- George W. Bush, March 8, 2003.

Here to me is more evidence of social engineering on a international scale, or to put it bluntly impose your will on other countries by invading them. This is a statement from Bob Graham the former Democratic senator from Florida. He is currently a fellow at Harvard University's Institute of Politics.

<<In February 2002, after a briefing on the status of the war in Afghanistan, the commanding officer, Gen. Tommy Franks, told me the war was being compromised as specialized personnel and equipment were being shifted from Afghanistan to prepare for the war in Iraq -- a war more than a year away. Even at this early date, the White House was signaling that the threat posed by Saddam Hussein was of such urgency that it had priority over the crushing of al Qaeda.>>

<<At a meeting of the Senate intelligence committee on Sept. 5, 2002, CIA Director George Tenet was asked what the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) provided as the rationale for a preemptive war in Iraq. An NIE is the product of the entire intelligence community, and its most comprehensive assessment. I was stunned when Tenet said that the White House had requested no NIE and none had been prepared. Invoking our rarely used senatorial authority, I directed the completion of an NIE.>> Here’s a link if you want to read more …

.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/18/AR2005111802397_pf.html

My case for the administration trying too do social engineering in Iraq-They've told us that Saddam's regime was on the verge of building nuclear weapons -This was a lie too get us to invade.

That we could safely invade with a relatively small number of ground troops; that the Iraqi people would greet us as liberators.__ We sure found out this wasn’t the case didn’t we ?

That Iraq's oil revenues would pay for the country's reconstruction; and that most of our troops would be out of Iraq within six months of the initial invasion.- I wont even comment on this ,I’ll just let the following words speak for them selves.

The results so far have been to date hard cash$416,177,630,512, and more important American lives lost,”3292”, total wounded “24476”. Your take on the democrats trying a bit of social engineering don’t fly in the face of the failed Bush attempts at social engineering on an international scale.

This incompetent attempt at social engineering, on an international scale, has been a complete failure, it has produced an Intensification of anti-Americanism, and the stability of current regimes that were friendly too us has been jeopardized as a consequences of our invasion and occupation of Iraq All of this for our attempt at social engineering on an international scale, also known as bringing freedom to the Middle East.



Here we are today with 71 Percent Of Iraqis Want U.S. Forces To Withdraw, 61 percent Support attacks against US-led forces, 79 percent of Iraqis say that the US is having a negative influence on the situation in Iraq
With just 14 percent saying that it is having a positive influence, and your ragging about the democrats trying some social engineering .

Quote Gabby

<< Either that or you aren't capable of critical thought. ]I haven't decided which just yet>>


You might be right, but somehow I manage to get my thoughts across, I don’t attempt to come across as someone that knows everything.

O…I believe that you had something in one of your post on this thread about the middle class. If you would like to get a little of my attempts at critical thought on this subject feel free to start a thread, I will me more than happy to oblige. I would post it here but I feel we have veered off of topic enough.

 

[Gabby]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

You need a hankie tree?

I find it amazing, and quite sad truth be told, that you are so blinded by your hatred and pithy thoughts that you can compare social engineering, which I equate to bussing, taxing the middle class to pay for the poor's medical and educational needs etc etc ad infinitum, that you can't see anything. Yours and the Democrats constant complaint is the war in Iraq. That's all you got. Emotians based on lies.

When I was a soldier I was taught not to whine and snivel without offering an alternative. You have none other than do it our way or we will snivel and whine. Democrats don't have one, NOT ONE, rational argument for anything. You truly believe that you know better how to run the country, finance the poor, finance medical care, etc. AS LONG AS YOU GET YOUR WAY YOU'RE happy.

I personally don't think Bush is the epitome of conservatism or the Republican ideal, and I'll admit taht. I will also say that I think we need to change direction in this country. However, people so blinded by their party line and the ability to think rationally that they can only complain and cry about the opposition instead of offering constructive or positive criticism do NO ONE any good.

Keep crying about the war. WHen the idiots in this country elect a democratic President and we retain a democratic house and senate, and we are all getting taxed to the gills, for idiotic social programs, TRUE social programs, not your idea of a social program, don't cry to me. Unless you make about 9 an hour and want Nanny Government to take care of your sorry ***** you will be taxed like never before.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

I still think that liberalism is a mental disorder, They just can`t see the light no matter how bright it is. The desease rids the mind of any common sence and makes your right hand extend without cause in a posture of Gimmy,,Gimmy, Gimmy, I`m a victim, I want free everything and I don`t want to better myself and I have lost all pride.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

Quote Gabby

Unfortunately the majority in this country are clods that will follow whatever idiotic and hairbrained scheme the dems will propose if they tell said clod that they will put a chicken in their pot and a buck in their pocket, at least IMHO.


Lets rearrange that post a bit

Unfortunately the majority in this country are clods that will follow whatever idiotic and hairbrained scheme the Republicans will propose if they tell said clod that they will put a chicken in their pot and a buck in their pocket, at least IMHO.


There that looks more like the truth in my eyes.

Unfortunately tree, there seems to be some recent truth to your statement. It is, in fact, one thing that GW has done. Howsomever, that ethic is not at the core of what rolmops has termed 'the far right conservatives' creedo. (that is, of course, anyone who does not agree with every outrageous left wing socialist agenda)

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

Gabby ,you do have a point.
However,for some reason,at least on this website,the extreme edge of a theoretical idea is taken as the generally accepted opinion of what mainstream conservatism,liberalism or republicanism supposedly is.

Murky's reply: Hmmmm Rolmops. Ya must not have paid attention to yer Liberal Poly Sci Professors in Holland. I totally reject yer attempt to label and thereby dismiss the Cornservative rhetoric on this forum as EXTREME. I know I post a lot here and I am not EXTREME, (you can't read my mind anyway) nor are my posts EXTREME. They are very middle of the road. Most Liberals here are not EXTREME either. They are relatively well reasoned positions, NOT EXTREME. Liberals and Democrats luv to define the right as EXTREME, MEAN SPIRITED, HATE THE ELDERLY, HATE THE CHILDREN, WANT EXXON OR HALABURTON TO TAKE YER LAST $, CHEAP, ('cause they won't agree to let their taxes go up to: "help the children"). Gabby: please don't give him a pass on this. Why do you agree with this garbage he spewed here? You think all the Cornservative posters here on this forum are EXTREME? I think Rolmops is smokin' again, please don't help him with his delusion.

We push each other into the extremist position of the idea by implying that this extremism is the hidden agenda of the opposing opinion.

Murkys reply: More BS. I guess Democrats and domestic Liberals don't want to: #1 raise taxes; #2 grow the size and scope of the government in all possible ways; #3 surrender in Iraq; #4 force all childern to go to public schools; #5 want all Federal Judges to follow European laws, treat our 20 page Cornstatution as a "living breathing document", subject to contemporary Liberal interpretation. Allow abortion on demand up to the date of birth. Allow criminals (including terrorists in Gitmo), the full protection of our legal system, n' free tax payer funded Lawyers. Allow the government to confiscate private property in favor of more development and more property tax generation. #6 Restrict Americans and ONLY American's use of CO2 generating fuels to save the Earth for the Chinese to own economically. This is not a complete list here, but it is THE TRUTH. The Liberal Democrat agenda is very clear to me, but the MSM, (the Democrat part of our media), softens it up for the sheeple and victims who don't pay attention. Please tell me the six points I just made are false or that my stating them for all to see is EXTREME! All this said: is the TRUTH EXTREME?

Most people do not belong in the extreme corner of any ideology and implying that you or I are in that corner is not where the truth lays.

Murky's reply: Good sales job here Rolmops. This is maybe what hooked Gabby. Most iboats members who post on dockside are NOT EXTREME. Rolmops is not the judge n' jury over what is "implied". That's just real fancy Liberal mind readin' n' opurtunistic labelin' Folks.

The lucky thing in this whole deal is that we mostly generalize and tomorrow work each at our own jobs and life goes on

Murky's reply: Just more warmth n' fuzz to get ya to buy the earlier crock o' s***!

As for Fox,their entire setup is based on feeding the extreme in order to promote their own message.

Murky's reply: Pure garbage here again. Rolmops appears to be a Liberal from his posts. He thinks the large ore ship that sank in Lake Superior is the "Partick Fitzgerald" too! I watch Fox news, as well as the rest of the MSM. His characterization is PATENTLY FALSE.

That is how they sell commercials. They love finger pointing because it beats self criticism and it is more spectacular.

Murky's reply: GARBAGE stick to Poly Sci.

Wow. Gabby please think about what you agree to. JR

 

[Gabby]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

Hold on there Murky, that's crazy talk. I merely agreed that once in a while we push the extreme envelope. I know that not ALL democrats are bleeding heart liberals that would sell their babies to give the crack ho on the corner a free meal. I also know that being a republican doesn't mean you are right of Atilla The Hun. (maybe right BEHIND him, but not right OF him)

All I agreed to was that we do sometimes push that envelope. Personally, I think I have made it quite clear on this site that I am a firm believer in personal responsibility and ownership of your actions. I don't believe for a second that most of the libs on this site believe what they spew. IMHO most say what is politically correct or looks good, and they think by acting this way they are making a difference. They sleep well thinking they helped someone.

Unfortunately, I also believe that most people that want government hand outs and government involvement are the very people that will benefit from those handouts and can't make it on their own. They can't truly recognize their dependance on Nanny government and they won't accept the fact their plight is their own doing, so they hate the republicans and those that achieved financial, educational or occupational milestones they didn't and act as if we're uncaring beasts, cause the truth hurts.

I learned one great truth in the Ordnance Corps. There are two classes of people. "Breakers" and "Maintainers". It's a mentality issue. If you're a maintainer, you fix whatever needs fixing and you get on with your life. You owe no one anything and you make it on your own. If your a breaker, you rely on everyone else, blame everyone else and you have no sense of personal responsibility.

There are names of people on this board that are obviously left, and obviously right. There are some in the middle. I'm just as guilty as anyone of assuming that a left leaning comment automatically makes the author Karl Marx. So I agreed, that maybe we shouldn't make that assumption. Maybe we shouldnt' use extreme labels.

But that by NO means makes ME a communist sympathizer or a lover of those on the left. I want to bring those prodigals back into the fold.

"GO ORDNANCE"

 

[oddjob]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

This really doesnt come as a shock. I was surprised to hear they had made the plans to begin with.............fair and balanced!....what were they thinking.

Yeah RolmopS..... us conservatives can come here to this family forum and wizz all over the tripe your liberal media spews daily. If you cant stomach it here then you can tune out as I do your media. Freedom sucks if your a lib...dont it?

Thanks to AM radio, the web, and FOX NEWS is sucks to be a lib.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

Hold on there Murky, that's crazy talk. I merely agreed that once in a while we push the extreme envelope. I know that not ALL democrats are bleeding heart liberals that would sell their babies to give the crack ho on the corner a free meal. I also know that being a republican doesn't mean you are right of Atilla The Hun. (maybe right BEHIND him, but not right OF him)

All I agreed to was that we do sometimes push that envelope. Personally, I think I have made it quite clear on this site that I am a firm believer in personal responsibility and ownership of your actions. I don't believe for a second that most of the libs on this site believe what they spew. IMHO most say what is politically correct or looks good, and they think by acting this way they are making a difference. They sleep well thinking they helped someone.

Unfortunately, I also believe that most people that want government hand outs and government involvement are the very people that will benefit from those handouts and can't make it on their own. They can't truly recognize their dependance on Nanny government and they won't accept the fact their plight is their own doing, so they hate the republicans and those that achieved financial, educational or occupational milestones they didn't and act as if we're uncaring beasts, cause the truth hurts.

I learned one great truth in the Ordnance Corps. There are two classes of people. "Breakers" and "Maintainers". It's a mentality issue. If you're a maintainer, you fix whatever needs fixing and you get on with your life. You owe no one anything and you make it on your own. If your a breaker, you rely on everyone else, blame everyone else and you have no sense of personal responsibility.

There are names of people on this board that are obviously left, and obviously right. There are some in the middle. I'm just as guilty as anyone of assuming that a left leaning comment automatically makes the author Karl Marx. So I agreed, that maybe we shouldn't make that assumption. Maybe we shouldnt' use extreme labels.

But that by NO means makes ME a communist sympathizer or a lover of those on the left. I want to bring those prodigals back into the fold.

"GO ORDNANCE"

Hey Gabby, Glad to here you are not agreeing to the EXTREME label for all of the right leaning posters or FOX NEWS. Rolmops also characterized FOX NEWS as EXTREME. Nothing could be farther from the truth. ABC,CBS,NBC,CNN,NYT,WP,LAT, are all examples of very left biased, (not EXTREME), MSM outfits in a state of severe decline because they edit and push just Left wing junk. Fox also has very articulate Lefties on their network, but contrasts those postitions with articulate Cornservative pundits. Bottom line: Fox viewers, (sorry Willy), get the Left slant from very good sources and can sit on the couch and see a Cornservative reply. It stimulates CRITICAL THINKIN' that is WHY THE DEMOCRATS ARE VERY VERY SCARED OF FOX. Critical thinkin' and Liberals n' modern Democrats are unable to cooexist comfortably. That all said, I for one: do not agree with many of your characterizations of the Left in this post either. I don't want to break it down, as Rolmops' attempt to label was far more agregious. I think many, (not all), generalizations and labels are counter productive, especially: if they overstate the case. Respectfully, JR

 

[12Footer]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

The Dems have decided not to go on Fox News Channels planned debate?

Now, I wonder why?

Maybe they would get questions that they have no asnwer for, like "WHAT`S YOUR PLAN"!

ALL THEY COULD SAY IS, "I`M NOT BUSH!

Or, "WHAT WHOULD MAKE YOU A GOOD PRESIDENT"?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, I`M NOT BUSH!

Or, "WHAT HAS PREPAIRED YOU TO BE PRESIDENT"?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, I`M NOT BUSH!

Or, "WHAT ABOUT IMAGRATION"?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, I DON`T SEE A PROBLEM, MOST OF THEM VOTE FOR US ANYWAY!

COWARDS, ALL OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Liberals define defeat, prejudice while redefining morality.

 

[treedancer]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

Quote Gabby


When I was a soldier I was taught not to whine and snivel without offering an alternative. You have none other than do it our way or we will snivel and whine. Democrats don't have one, NOT ONE, rational argument for anything. You truly believe that you know better how to run the country, finance the poor, finance medical care, etc. AS LONG AS YOU GET YOUR WAY YOU'RE happy.

==When I was in the Corps I did my job and I did it well, the same as now when I?m on the road I do my job to the best of my ability, if things don?t go well I try too correct the situation so things will go well for myself as well as my customers. Never been a sniveler, don?t know any snivelers, might have had a sniveler in the family but they stopped that by the time they were five or six years old. I can?t speak for all Democrats, but will try to speak for this one that voted to against the current so called Republican, that is holding the job at present time.

Still trying to determine what you are referring too when you say ?not one rational argument for anything?. If your referring to the debacle in Iraq, I have said it many times on this forum we have to fix what we have broken, it was a mistake to go in, but were there, so we have to finish the job. Unlike my Conservative counterparts I will be Bitxxxxg all the way, so we don?t make the mistake of getting another band of incompetents again for at least another forty years. If your are trying to get a handle on mind reading better take another look at the course your taking, don?t seem too be doing you much good as for reading my mind.


However, people so blinded by their party line and the ability to think rationally that they can only complain and cry about the opposition instead of offering constructive or positive criticism do NO ONE any good.?Another failed attempt at mind reading .

When the idiots in this country elect a democratic President and we retain a democratic house and senate, and we are all getting taxed to the gills, for idiotic social programs, Unless you make about 9 an hour and want Nanny Government to take care of your sorry ***** you will be taxed like never before.---

When the idiots in this country elect the next President I hope they take into account the job the Republicans have did in running this country into the ground for the last six years. We have the most porous borders, especially on the southern end. Lets talk about that liberal Bill Clinton Presidency, when he left office I believe it was about a 200 billion surplus, what about now, I believe it is getting close too 400 billion deficit not counting the Iraq war. As for the taxes with any luck at all we will maybe be able to have the best of both worlds a Democrat in the white house, and this form of taxation. See link.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main

O.. yes would also like to get some kind o Election reform ,both parties should not be able to spend over I million on a Presidential election

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

Quote Gabby

<<Republicans don't engage in social engineering nor do they make silly promises about taking care of everyone like the dems do.>>

"Guest worker" amnesty, medicare drug packages, redistribution of taxpayer money (hundreds of billions) into the Iraq economy, monumentally raising the national debt that amounts to simply deferring huge (mega) tax increases upon all Americans.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

Quote Gabby

<<Republicans don't engage in social engineering nor do they make silly promises about taking care of everyone like the dems do.>>

"Guest worker" amnesty, medicare drug packages, redistribution of taxpayer money (hundreds of billions) into the Iraq economy, monumentally raising the national debt that amounts to simply deferring huge (mega) tax increases upon all Americans.

I'm going to take a stab at this skinny:

Guest Worker: Show me a Dem who isn't on board with it. I can show you some republicans that aren't.

Medicare: Dems want Natioanl health care and pay for it by raising taxes

Redistribution of taxpayer money: Sounds like a social program to me, the libs must love it

Raising of National debt: All time tax revenue and stock market highs

Tax increase: Seems the President has tax CUTS, the dems wish to raise taxes.

I am not one to be long winded, I try to get to the point.

Am I close in my reasoning of your statement?

 

[Gabby]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

When the idiots in this country elect the next President I hope they take into account the job the Republicans have did in running this country into the ground for the last six years. We have the most porous borders, especially on the southern end. Lets talk about that liberal Bill Clinton Presidency, when he left office I believe it was about a 200 billion surplus, what about now, I believe it is getting close too 400 billion deficit not counting the Iraq war. As for the taxes with any luck at all we will maybe be able to have the best of both worlds a Democrat in the white house, and this form of taxation. See link. "Quote Tree"


Edit: No derogatory statements please.

First, the surplus was an inflated figure based on anticipated spending vs. real spending. I.E. you tell your wife you have 100 in the bank, and you have to spend 50 on the boat payment and 20 on insurance and 20 on fuel. You have 10 left right? But instead of making a payment you defer that payment so you have 60 left after paying insurance and fuel. Do you really have a positive cash flow? No, you just didn't make a payment.

Neither did Slick Willie. He deferred payments. Saying he had a surplus is a misnomer dems love to cry about. He budgeted 500 Billions dollars for his personal account, having affairs costs money don't you know, and hiding an affair is HiGH on that list. Therefore, the money he budgeted had to be accounted for and hiding 10 Billion for his DC intern seemed ridiculous...at the time.

As far as a surplus, he might have had a tad more money than anticipated, but he never had a true surplus, nor has any president since the Democratic administration of Johnson in 64. We started the long march towards the worlds largest debtor nation during Johnsons watch. A dem I might add.

THe largest decline, politically speaking, of this nation, happened in the last forty years. From the early 60's to the latter 90's, the dems contolled both houses. And for a large percentage of that time, they controlled the executive branch. During their control taxes were raised and national security took a back seat.

I'll be the first to admit when something isn't done right, and I'll be the first to admit when something needs to be done different, based on a concrete, executable plan. But your idea consist of ******$& and Whin*$& and sniveling.

THAT I don't consider a solid plan.

 

[treedancer]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

Quote gabby

Tree, I'll make this short, as your national attention span seems to be VERY short, your knowledge SHORT and your understadning of history shorter still. Maybe cause you never had to ante up.

O?All of this might be true, but my attention span is not so short the it wont go back to the year 2000 when President Clinton had a record budget surplus of $230 billion and the year 1999,when he had a surplus of $122.7 billion. It seems to me them numbers would be rather hard to juggle considering that he had a Republican congress and a Republican senate. Even with the first six years of the Current band of fools President Bush has managed to run up a $400 billion dollar deficit. Sure don?t have to be a historian to know that is the biggest deficient in history.

<<WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Clinton announced Wednesday that the federal budget surplus for fiscal year 2000 amounted to at least $230 billion, making it the largest in U.S. history and topping last year's record surplus of $122.7 billion.>>


http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/09/27/clinton.surplus/


Here?s the link to what I?m talking about, do you happen to have a link to where you got this information? <<First, the surprlus was an inflated figure based on anticipated spending vs. real spending.>>sure would like too go over the figures while my attention span is in focus.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

I hear a little bit of post-whining.

 

[PW2]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

The Faux news channel is little more than the propaganda arm of the Republican party, and the right wing of this country.

That's fine, but why would dems go on and give them credibility they don't deserve?

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN... those are all good little objective news channels? No Bush haters there? Be honest....

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

Dems won't participate in Faux debate? Jeez, so I suppose that means that Obama might decline that "guest of honor" spot at the next KKK rally. Woe is US!

 

[bjcsc]

Re: Dems refuse to go on Fox

Man, tree...I can't believe you fell for the whole "surplus" thing. Everyone knows that it is pretty much exactly as Gabby said: Clinton manipulated the numbers and just put the debt in different columns - but it was still there. I know you like links to information in order to believe it is valid, so here's a link to the 2006 Federal Budget (and since it's obvious you have never read one - they all contain historical information). Here's a clip from it, during the Clinton "surplus" years. Do you see any negative debt numbers during his presidency? Good lord, man, wake up!! I can tell from your posts that you are extremely intelligent and I just can't believe you fall for this stuff, esp. when the real data is so easy to get...