DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

[doyall]

Changed gear lube on my 2007 DPS-A after apx. 30 hours use as part of winter lay-up. The lube color left no doubt of water intrusion. (Last two lube changes showed no visible evidence of water.) Sent a sample to the lab for verification. While the sample was in transit/process I did a pressure test on the outdrive. Unit held 14.5 lbs. pressure as measured with a digital tire gauge for 72 hours (3 days). Pressure taken at the same time and apx. ambient temperature each day. Analysis comes back showing .3% (point three percent - .003) with the lab indicating it was on the low side of abnormal (2 on a scale of 0 to 4) and commented that "data does not indicate an immediate need for maintenance action. Continue to observe the trend and monitor equipment and fluid conditions."

Naturally I would prefer there be no water in the outdrive, but is there a level of water that is "safe"?

If a leak-down test doesn't result in any leakage, is there anything else that can be done as a diagnostic test by a non-mechanic?

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

Vacuum test.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

Vacuum test.

+++++1

You did the test with the fluid drained out right? You pulled the drive and made sure no water in the bellows?

 

[doyall]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

+++++1

You did the test with the fluid drained out right? You pulled the drive and made sure no water in the bellows?

Lube was drained.

I did not pull the drive as I do not have the necessary facility/equipment but the bellows was changed by a VP authorized shop five days before the last use (as what I considered a routine maintenance procedure - gimble bearing was also changed at the same time). After the last use on Oct. 20 the lube was drained and the water discovered.

For what it is worth, the leak-down test was done with the drive in the full up position.

Can the point of a breach be identified by a vacuum test?

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

What facility/equipment are you referring to? Pulling the drive takes a socket set or wrenches, and a pair of pliers. Water can enter the drive thru the input shaft seal as it is not designed to keep anything out, only keep lube in. Youll need to pull the drive to make sure there isn't water in the bellows. Also as others have said, a vacuum test is in order if a pressure test reveals nothing.

 

[doyall]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

What facility/equipment are you referring to? Pulling the drive takes a socket set or wrenches, and a pair of pliers. Water can enter the drive thru the input shaft seal as it is not designed to keep anything out, only keep lube in. Youll need to pull the drive to make sure there isn't water in the bellows. Also as others have said, a vacuum test is in order if a pressure test reveals nothing.

A garage would be a nice facility to have. An outdrive stand would be nice equipment to have. Experience that I do not have in removing outdrives would also be real nice.

Good info about the input shaft seal but if it is not designed to keep anything out I would presume that would include air so what benefit would a vacuum test be?

Otherwise, how can the point of a breach be identified by a vacuum test?

 

[insttech1]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

Do a search on pulling the outdrive, or see if it is located in the adults only post at the top.

And you don't really need a drive stand. My son and I pulled mine in ten minutes by lowering the drive all the way, and having a 2x6 about 1/2" below the skeg. Once the six bolts were off and the drive was free, we gently lifted it down so the skeg touched the 2x6, and then laid it down in my garden cart over a tarp. Gotta be careful how you balance the weight.

Then I just wheeled it over and and attached the correct eye bolt and locking nut to the dipstick inlet, and it's hanging in the garage from a ratchet strap rated for about 400lbs.

They're heavy, but once you do it, you'll see it's really not that bad at all.

And from what I have read about the sx-a's, you must be sure that the clamp wasn't put on too tight. That actually causes the bellows to leak. So if you just had that service done, you might want to call the shop that did it and tell them there's now water in your drive, and see if they'll offer to check it, since their bellows work might be the source of water intrusion.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

Good info about the input shaft seal but if it is not designed to keep anything out I would presume that would include air so what benefit would a vacuum test be?

He was a little unclear. The way the lip of the seals are, the oil is kept in but if there is water in the bellows, it can seep by that seal.

 

[dypcdiver]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

My first reaction to this is that the bellows might not have been put on correctly and that with the heating and cooling after use, some water might have been sucked in past the input shaft seal. A vacuum test may help identify a leak, but finding where it is, is another thing.

However as you say the bellows were changed by a VP workshop and also a new gimbal bearing at the same time. I am puzzled why a new bearing was needed as mine has done well over 500 hours and is still good. Bearing failure is usually because of water ingress, did the workshop mention water in the bellows? What I am saying is that if the old bellows leaked then that might have been when the water got into the drive.

Now pulling the drive is easy, first time I did it I was on my own, yes it was a bit of a struggle but I am only 5' 8" and don't go anywhere a gym! Second time my wife helped a little. I have now built a basic stand to make life easy.
Having said that, if the bellows was not put on correctly by the workshop then they should fix it. Removing the drive yourself and finding water in the bellows I suspect would result in the workshop denying responsibility, equally unless you are there when the drive is pulled they may not admit to any fault on their behalf.
Over to you to decide

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

In the bearing carrier is a set of seals.Back to back seals.
They are designed to keep the oil in and water out.
If the seals are both working right no problem.
Sometimes the seal that keeps the vacuum, it can go bad and allow water in.
The drive heats up and as it cools down the pressure decreases and the water is sucked in.
It can also be sucked in around the o-rings and seals between the cases.
Unfortunately there isn't an easy way to tell what's leaking/sucking.
Someone suggested looking in the bellows, that's the first place to look.
Another thing, as you pressure test the drive,you need to turn the prop and front yoke.
Might leak as it turns??

 

[bruceb58]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

You should be pulling your drive annually anyway. Its just part of your maintenance.

 

[doyall]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

.... Bearing failure is usually because of water ingress, did the workshop mention water in the bellows? What I am saying is that if the old bellows leaked then that might have been when the water got into the drive. ...

No mention of intrusion. I never had any suspicion of a leak.

... Removing the drive yourself and finding water in the bellows I suspect would result in the workshop denying responsibility, equally unless you are there when the drive is pulled they may not admit to any fault on their behalf. ...

Taking it back to the shop next week. I will see what happens.

 

[doyall]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

You should be pulling your drive annually anyway. Its just part of your maintenance.

Wish I felt comfortable doing it (and had the facilities/equipment).

 

[Thalasso]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

Wish I felt comfortable doing it (and had the facilities/equipment).

It doesn't get any easier then those drives. UN bolt the cover. On the lower right is the shift linkage. Unscrew the bolt and remove. Disconnect the rams by removing the cotter pin. Take a flat head screwdriver and carefully pry on the pin as to not chip paint.Hold them up out of the way with a couple bungee straps. Now remove the 6 bolts holding the drive on.Get yourself a ATV jack from Harbor Freight add a couple pieces of wood and place under the cavitation plate. Jack it up just a little and remove the drive. Be careful when the drive shaft comes out so it doesn't drop and hit anything. Check the bellows for water, the gimble bearing for smoothness, grease the drive shaft splines and replace the drive. Doesn't get any easier.Caution needs to be taken so you don't bind the shift cable or forget to replace it in the hole when putting drive back on. The u-joints are not grease able.

 

[dypcdiver]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

Have you asked the workshop why they replaced the gimbal bearing? On a 2007 boat it should not have worn out unless it had done a massive number of hours, got wet or the engine was severely out of alignment.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

Have you asked the workshop why they replaced the gimbal bearing? On a 2007 boat it should not have worn out unless it had done a massive number of hours, got wet or the engine was severely out of alignment.

If i had to guess, I'll bet they didn't change anything. I have a 07 with twins (420 hrs)and this will be the first change on the bellows just for the sake of it.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

Not positive but the bellows should be replaced at 3 years?
4 at the most.
But every year they should be checked for water.
That's the old drive's and all the SP and later drives.

 

[doyall]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

Well, the shop said they pulled the drive and declared it dry. I did not personally see it. They also said they did a pressure and vacuum test and both were good. Still leaves me wondering where the water in the lube came from. Maybe condensation, seeing the low percentage the lab found?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

Maybe when the lube was changed last, the o-rings/gaskets weren't replaced on all the plugs and you got some seepage through those.

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: DPS-A: Water in gear lube, pressure test OK. What next?

I would have asked to personally see it. Or spent 10 minutes pulling the drive and checking for myself. If the bellows were dry, and pressure/vacuum tests were both good, then your drive is completely sealed and cannot let water in. So unless some got in when you did not expect it, say like when you're checking the dipstick, the shop is pulling a fast one.

Did you ever get an explanation of why the gimbal bearing was replaced so early? If not for water intrusion or a noisy bearing, I'd start to suspect that this shop isn't being exactly honest with you.