Drive shaft snapped (1990 140hp)

[archcycle]

Re: Drive shaft snapped (1990 140hp)

@airman1094 I will try again with heat tonight which will also have another day of the PB soaking in. I did empty the lube.

@boobie I was thinking about trying to pull from the bolts at the back of the carrier but decided instead to rig up two U bolts to pull on the carrier from behind the support arms where the two holes you're talking about should be. I drilled a hole in the flat retainer plate of each U bolt so i could pull on them with the threaded rods i put on the puller.

This bearing carrier does not have holes to attach a puller on the face of it.

By the nature of the setup I made though it can shift around and ends up not pulling evenly and so pushing laterally on the prop shaft. I don't know how much it takes to bend it but i'd rather not find out. I did put a lot of force on it last night.

Edit:

Aha!

http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Grade-182...65702955&sr=8-2&keywords=2+jaw+puller+10-inch

Amazon Prime = $3.99 overnight shipping

 

[boobie]

Re: Drive shaft snapped (1990 140hp)

Check post # 6 again and see where the two bolts are threaded into the carrier.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Drive shaft snapped (1990 140hp)

Check post # 6 again and see where the two bolts are threaded into the carrier.

There are definitely no puller threaded holes on the outer rim supports of this gearcase like there are in post #6. This is a large case 15 spline V4 gearcase, but on my V6 geared large style gearcase (you may remember my wrong gear ratio lower unit debacle a while back) there are definitely two puller threaded holes.

Just took pics of the V6 and V4 gearcases.



I took a nylon brush and some PB to the inside edges of the V4 and it actually sort of looks threaded.. am i using the wrong tool

 

[archcycle]

Re: Drive shaft snapped (1990 140hp)

In order to find out if I just sucked at pulling bearing housings out of outboard gearcases I decided to go a step ahead and take apart the V6 case that I was planning on cannibalizing the drive shaft out of. With the same puller and the 5/16 threaded rods from airman1094's recommendation (i think 20 pitch though, whatever home depot was selling), this gearcase being one that you can thread puller rods into at the prop side, I put the puller on, sprayed some PB, spent about 60 seconds on it with the torch, and it pulled right out. Model with no snap rings.

That seemed a lot more like how this was supposed to go. Right now I'm thinking I may just rebuild the V6 gearcase (it did have some water ingress) and use that until I can figure out what to do with the V4 case.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Drive shaft snapped (1990 140hp)

Does anyone know anything about whether the V4 gearcase, the onethat does not have the retainer bolts that double as puller holes, actually pulls out or is it threaded?

 

[emckelvy]

Re: Drive shaft snapped (1990 140hp)

There are no internal threads on these gearcases, as you'd see on a Merc. The steel retainer plate fits in front of a large snap ring, and when you thread the (4) screws thru the propshaft bearing carrier into the retainer plate and tighten those screws, it pulls the retainer plate against the snap ring, which sucks-up the bearing carrier.

I read thru your postings and way back you said you pulled the (4) screws that are on the forward end of the propshaft bearing carrier.

These are all that hold that carrier into the gearcase. What is likely is that there are a lot of corrosion products built-up between the carrier and the gearcase, and this has mechanically locked-in the carrier.

You need to apply a generous amount of heat to the outside of the gearcase, in the bearing-carrier area. A MAPP gas torch might get hot enough for this, I doubt propane would do it. You could get way more heat with an oxyacetylene outfit, but you'd have to be real careful with the heat or you could melt the gearcase!

A slide hammer might help, if you can get an attachment that can grip the carrier. The combination of heat and shock should get 'er out.

If not, let it cool down and soak it with a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone. This mixture has been proven to be way more effective than most mfr's penetrating fluids. For example, it's twice as good as Kano Kroil and that's some good stuff!

Just be sure you apply the mixture after the gearcase cools, as it's somewhat flammable! Let it evaporate some before applying heat, or you may have some Major Flamage! A fire extinguisher nearby is Highly Recommended!!!!

HTH & G'luck with the lower unit.........ed

 

[airman1094]

Re: Drive shaft snapped (1990 140hp)

Emckelvy is correct...mine had snap rings behind the carrier...those "threads" I think your referring to are at the front of the g/c where the prop meets correct? If so mine has some thread looking grooves that had me confused also, but they are machining marks on mine! It took me about 3 mins of heat from a heat gun on one side and a torch on the other(port and starboard) of the g/c and took a crapload of force to remove! I think your pulling rig looks great, just make sure it's as even as possible!

 

[archcycle]

Re: Drive shaft snapped (1990 140hp)

Well moving forward with the V6 gearcase everything is finally going fairly smoothly. I got pretty stuck on the prop shaft housing seals and the drive shaft housing seals but today I located a perfect fitting loaner slide hammer and seal puller attachment at an auto store and maybe it was finally having the right tool and maybe (less likely) it was two days of hosing things down with PB and hammering at them but they all came out, and with relatively little cussing and banging.

I hosed all of the bearings that were in apparently non-serviceable assemblies that I didn't remove down with fast drying MAF cleaner solvent and then blew them dry with compressed air then put a VERY LIGHT coating of OMC triple guard grease on all of them. I don't know if they'd contracted mild surface rust since being disassembled or if some of the PB and WD-40 had just loosened junk up that settled on those bearing surfaces but I didn't want to take any chances.

I noticed there were two sets of seals in the kit that fit the prop shaft bearing carrier hole- one set good and snug around the prop shaft and one kind of snug. I opted for the snugger. I can only assume there is a different diameter prop shaft out there somewhere. Hopefully that is correct. Because it's staying that way

The prop shaft carrier's anode had a great original looking shape to it but it had lots of deep tube'ish holes going through it so i'm going to pick up another one at the marina tomorrow and replace this one. It's probably in fine shape, manual says replace if more than 1/3 corroded, but after all this trouble $20 for a new anode in something i don't expect to open back up again any time soon seems like a no-brainer.

So my questions for tomorrow's work:

1. Do I need to get that special drive shaft socket or something like it to properly torque down the pinion nut? The manual is pretty specific that under or over torquing the pinion nut drastically reduces pinion life.

2. When I reassemble the needle bearings do I need to use "needle bearing assembly grease" or can I just stick them in there with some triple guard grease? It just seemed odd that they referenced a specific grease for putting bearings in and I'd hate to load up the gearcase with a grease that it doesn't like. Then again the manual did have me grease the rubber lips of the seals with triple guard grease.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Drive shaft snapped (1990 140hp)

1. Do I need to get that special drive shaft socket or something like it to properly torque down the pinion nut? The manual is pretty specific that under or over torquing the pinion nut drastically reduces pinion life.

After some more googling it is apparent that yes it really does need to be torqued properly. I wonder if one of those Gator Grip self adjusting sockets with the little rods that push in to set size would work? It seems like if I got lucky they would be in a reasonable configuration to set inside the splines.



edit after looking for one: they do not make them large enough

 

[archcycle]

Re: Drive shaft snapped (1990 140hp)

I'm ready to reassemble now and am not sure about the pinion bearing steps. I put the 18 needle bearings back into the bearings case part of the LU housing that the drive shaft goes through, and i'd think i was ready to drop the DS bearing and thrust washer and spacer back into the gearcase and then drop the driveshaft bearing housing down on top of everything and start torquing things down but want to be sure i'm not missing something here.

Step 4. Insert the tool with the bearing into the gearcase. Drive the bearing into the gearcase until the washer on the tool contacts the spacer.

is this saying that i should have the driveshaft in the gearcase and then use this tool top push the bearing down onto it? This seems odd because it didn't really come out like that. It just all slipped out together.

Maybe I'm looking too far into the directions which might assume I did things to the driveshaft in earlier steps. Just stick it back in there and torque it down against the pinion gear and pinion nut, right?

 

[archcycle]

Re: Drive shaft snapped (1990 140hp)

Discovered that the tool is just for inserting the bearing housing that holds the 18 needle bearings. I didn't remove that. Moved on. Things are going pretty well and I'm taking lots of pictures for at least a re-assembly tutorial.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Drive shaft snapped (1990 140hp)

Everything was going great until that damn pinion nut. :mad-new:
Going to pick back up tomorrow and see if I can fashion some kind of tool to hold it.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Drive shaft snapped (1990 140hp)

edit: deleted dumb idea. replaced with a good one.

You take a step back and look at it again the next day (no gin and tonic in hand) and suddenly the thing that made you crazy the previous day is so obvious.

So here's how you make a pinion nut holder tool-

pretty thin 7/8 open wrench (craftsman fit but task force (home depot) did not). Painters tape into a cradle around the back and open end of the wrench. Fold some tape so it's got sticky side out on both sides and build up inside the wrench so that when you put the nut in it the surface of the nut is past the plane of the wrench and you can see what you're doing with the drive shaft. Stick the nut to the tape.



Of course two of the shift cover holes were stripped out and went loose well before 70in lb so I had to go out and get some helicoils. Promptly broke the crap out of the tool that came with them but the hammer drill made quick work of the tapping

Waiting for my drive shaft spline socket to arrive and then I think I'm done.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Drive shaft snapped (1990 140hp)

Finally got around to posting the followup pictures promised above. Hopefully it will help someone else out. The pictures are of a V6 gearcase that I have on this V4.

http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-evinrude-outboards/v6-gearcase-reassembly-pictures-615581.html