Electrician has an electrical question???

[heyttown]

Although I think I know the answer a little back up info would be appreciated....<br /><br />I set up a pool this summer..no biggie 120v cord.<br />Closest outlet to use,I need an extension cord to plug it in.<br />Well I decided to make a makeshift 12/2 romex xtension cord with a 4square box and a gfci outlet for saftey for swimmers and such.....<br />When this outlet is plugged in, I get zapped while touching my pressure release valve on my air compressor which is also on the same circuit,just a few outlets down the line from the pool filter outlet.This pressure release valve is metal and is attached to my pe ckerhead/point of electrical connection on my compressor.<br /><br />If I plug the pool filter in without the gfci in place, I dont get zapped.<br /><br />So it has something to do with the GFCI.....<br /><br />I have my opinions but what are yours?

 

[all thumbs]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

Just a guess, 12/2 no ground wire? Sounds like something with a ground issue.

 

[heyttown]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

Im saying its a ground issue myself, but yes the 12/2 romex does have a bare ground wire in it.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

WELL,,don't touch the pressure relief valve.. EVER..!!

 

[eurolarva]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

Not an electrician here but I think the GFI has to be the first outlet to the electrical panel, then all other outlets on the circuit follow the GFI. Have you checked the wires on the compressor to verify load and neutral are not reversed?

 

[heyttown]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

Gfi is wired on the "line" side so it can be placed anywhere in the circuit....The compressor works and always has,so I doubt the wires are backwards,besides I never wired the compressor,just plug it in.....If I unplug the GFCI extension cord,I dont get zapped touching the compressor.

 

[qaztwo]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

When you say zapped are you getting the full current. WHen replacing my water pipes I got zapped when I cut through the last one to ground, not the full load but enough to make me not wanted to do it again. Ended up be a bad outlet. When the test button is pushed does the outlet trip?

 

[all thumbs]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

Sounds like your getting a difference of ground potential. I wonder if you drive a ground rod by the gfci if that would help.

 

[Grant S]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

I'm with all thumbs, if it is just a tingle it is probably the small difference in ground potential.<br />I've come across it in milking sheds where the cows avoided one stall which proved to have this problem.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

Maybe check you continuity on your cord going to the compressor. May have a broken neutral or the neutral grounding out on the compressor.<br /><br />First off you should check what voltage you are getting from the relief valve to a known good ground. Then trace back from there.<br /><br />I do commercial kitchen repairs and lot of time. When a table starts bitting people, it is usually a neutral or ground that is open.<br /><br />Should double check all your connections to verify that the hots are not reveresed anywhere in the circuit. Otherwise the GFI is not going to do its job correctly.

 

[Ron G]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

All good advice try moving the gfi to the outlet for better ground then plug your extenion cord in,does sound like a ground.

 

[one more cast]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

Here in NY it won't pass with a GFI receptical on a pool. I couldn't even us UF cable. I had to run conduit and use a GFI breaker.I also had to ground the pool to the pump.

 

[PierBridge]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

Originally posted by One More Cast:<br /> Here in NY it won't pass with a GFI receptical on a pool.

Same here.

 

[heyttown]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

This is just one of those inflatable pools, that get torn down at the end of summer......<br />I understand all the grounding specs needed to be done for a swimming pool.It gets worse if that said pool is inground.

 

[levittownnick]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

I have a couple of thoughts on this subject.<br />1) The most dangerous thing I can think of is that someone used a "Neutral" wire to substitute for a missing Ground somewhere in the system AND the neutral wire got reversed with the "Hot" wire. When connected to this circuit, the "Ground" becomes a HOT wire that cannot be opened by a GFCI!!! I know of a case like this that was done by a Master Electrician and it Killed a young plumber.<br />I suggest that the housing of the compressor be checked for voltage to ground and that the Ground of your extention cord be checked for voltage to Ground. In each case use a verifiable ground such as the cold water pipe.<br />2) A common GFCI is not suitable to be used on the end of an extension cord because if for some reason the Neutral is broken or making a poor connection, the GFCI will not have the power to detect a fault or to trip open the circuit. A special corded GFCI is required for this application (I know it's a matter of $$$ but that don't cut it if someone is killed.).<br /><br />I would be interested to hear the outcome of this problem.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

A GFCI induces a voltage on the neutral line in order to test for neutral-ground shorts. I *think* that might be the source of your bite, but I'm not sure how it's getting to the ground line...<br /><br />Like Nick, I'm anxious to hear the answer. <br />PS - Levittown, leviton? Dang I hate those slot-phillips-robertson screws.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

Another thought,<br /><br />Perhaps different in the States but here nuetral and ground are "tied" such that both are at 0V.<br /><br />If your earth is not properly "tied" down somewhere in the system then you could have your nuetral floating above 0V. Depending on the connection it can float up to full voltage but is is probably at around 30 - 40V.<br /><br />A further thought.<br /><br />I had a similar problem once that only happened when the humidity was really high or when it rained. My gate opener has 220V going in. When they installed it they had a flashover on the incoming power lead. There were traces of carbon on the nuetral and the live. Whenever there was enough moisture, the moisture with the carbon caused leakage and the nuetral measured 160V. For some reason the earth leakage (I think your GFCI) system was not working else it would have tripped the breaker. Check your connections and ensure that where you stripped off the insulation that you dont have a nick in the insulation.<br /><br />Hope you can find the problem.<br /><br />Cheers<br />Andrew

 

[levittownnick]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

P.S. Paul,<br />Levittown = Levittown New York, but I will admit a connection to Leviton.

 

[TELMANMN]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

I had a mislabled GFI so of course when hooked up it was wrong. Took back and got a new one(different brand) and cured the problem.

 

[arfaname]

Re: Electrician has an electrical question???

What is a GFI? I am guessing its like what we have here in aus as an "RCD" residual current device. It takes both active and neutral wires through it and if it senses and inbalance between the two conductors it shuts down. Of course there is only one place it can go and thats to earth. Is the GFI a similar thing?