Engine Coupler Worn?

MightyEsquilax

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Jul 15, 2012
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I've got a real problem. I just removed my Alpha I Gen 2 drive and decided to replace the Upper Gear with a SEI116 drive. My old outdrive came off the boat with no effort at all. When I mounted the new SEI116 I could not get that last 1.5-2in of the drive mounted onto the bell housing. Some facts to go along with my problem.

1. YES, the engine alignment is correct. I have video of the engine alignment tool and splines.

2. The old outdrive installs with NO EFFORT (I have video demonstrating old outdrive and new outdrive)

3. I have temporarily removed the O-rings on the drive shaft yoke on both the old outdrive and new outdrive just to eliminate a variable and I see the same effect (old drive mounts easy, new drive doesn't mount).


The gimbal bearing and bellows are new 2 years ago and never had any issue since replacement. No water entry in the bellows or the boat. I am replacing the Upper Gear because I had lower unit oil in the bellows when I removed the drive this Spring and decided the SEI116 would likely be cheaper or same price as rehabbing the old Upper unit.

I went so far as to use a caliper to measure the splines of the SEI116 shaft and old drive shaft to see if there was a difference and I couldn't find one. I also measured the widest part of the yoke where the gimbal bearing rests and the measurement is the same on the new shaft and the old.

I looked at the engine coupler (best I can see with a flashlight through the gimbal bearing) and my untrained eye doesn't see anything "messed up" with the coupler. Splines are there and appear "ok". If the engine coupler was worn out would that explain why my old drive mounts A-OK with no effort and the new drive won't mount all the way?

Is there something else I'm missing??
 

84EdH

Chief Petty Officer
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Apr 30, 2011
Messages
575
Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

Hi rabbit!

Is the old and new yoke same length?
Do you have new drive locked in forward gear (counterclockwise) ?
Can u get under drive and see if shoes are lining up?
Coupler would not be an issue
 
Last edited:

funk6294

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Apr 26, 2009
Messages
294
Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

I would think if the coupler was worn it would skill insert easily. As was mentioned before double check that the shaft length is the same between the two. You might also take a straight edge to the new one and make sure it isn't bent. It could be possible you received an upper with a damaged/defective input shaft. Also if you have a set of calipers, verify the diameter is correct the whole length of the new shaft. Something is binding it up and I wonder if the shaft diameter varied or there is a bur that is hanging it in the gimbal bearing.
 

MightyEsquilax

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Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

Ahh, yes all good questions. I should have been more descriptive. Yes the shift shaft is engaged in forward, yes I rotate counter clockwise and I'm positive the splines engage with the engine coupler at least part of the way because I can rotate the engine by standing on the prop.

Another good question that I forgot to state up front, yes the yoke lengths are the same. Shoes are definitely lining up and I have looked to verify. In fact, they are not "in contact" yet because of the 1.5-2in gap remaining. Recall, I can mount the old drive all day long with no trouble.

My thoughts on the shaft diameter agree with yours and I should "scientifically" measure the full length but the thickest part still seems to be at the end of the yoke 1.37in which does match the old drive. Will inspect the straight edge.

Thanks for the suggestions!
 

MightyEsquilax

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Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

Verified today, as best I can, that the new yoke diameter agrees with the old yoke diameter. Likewise, the new shaft appears as straight as I can tell with a rudimentary "straight edge".

Anyone have any other suggestions?
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

Try removing the 'o' rings off the yoke and see if it goes in without them. If it does, you have to use the calibrated 'MercKick' tool...
 

MightyEsquilax

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Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

Thanks for the reply and suggestion, as I indicated in the original post the o-rings are not installed right now and I still see the same problem.
 

84EdH

Chief Petty Officer
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Apr 30, 2011
Messages
575
Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

Rabbit: you sound like you know what your doing. this cant be like solving the Bermuda Triangle quest. What about just some dumb overlooked thing.

First thought: the new drive has a pre-installed rubber seal around the drive shaft housing? You already have one glued into gimbal housing? Put old drive on.........bingo. put new drive on......two seals= no fit !
 

MightyEsquilax

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Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

Ed...agree this shouldn't be this hard to figure out! :) I removed the foam ring as well. I forgot to mention that in my original post. Yes, there has to be something simple here. The only places that can prevent it from going in are the engine coupler, the gimbal bearing, and *possibly* the bellows sleeve retainer ring that secures the bellows to the bell housing. The thought crossed my mind to dremel the retainer ring of the bellows sleeve just a little bit but I thought there must be enough "give" in that tiny burr overlap and I've never seen any historical posts or experience from others refering people to problems with the sleeve retainer ring. But, there is a first time for everything!

As you can imagine it's frustrating because you can't see into the bell housing and u-joint bellows to know what's going on. It would be great to take the yoke off of the SEI116 and push it into the engine coupler and gimbal bearing to completely eliminate 2 variables but I don't want to disassemble for warranty and level of effort purposes :). I've started contact with SEI just trying to burn the candle on both ends to get technical minds together!
 

Bt Doctur

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Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

Is the rear of the drive hitting the trim/tilt rams?
 

MightyEsquilax

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Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

Nope, the trim rams are slightly suspended and out of the way. I will try to post some photos in a day or 2 for a little more detail. I actually have a full video clip of me mounting my old drive and my attempt at mounting the new drive. Unfortunately it appears I can upload videos to iboats.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

Nope, the trim rams are slightly suspended and out of the way. I will try to post some photos in a day or 2 for a little more detail. I actually have a full video clip of me mounting my old drive and my attempt at mounting the new drive. Unfortunately it appears I can upload videos to iboats.

Upload to youtube and post the link...
 

MightyEsquilax

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Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

Ok, I've posted a video of the installation.

The first part of the video is me installing my original Mercruiser Upper Gearbox with no difficulty except for the shift slide always slipping in the way. As you can see I rotate the prop a few times to line up the coupler splines and it slides on nice and easy. Finally, I run the same install process on the new SEI 116 unit and it gets "stuck" and just won't go anymore. The video doesn't show it but trust me I've moved and adjusted the outdrive every which way I know how and it won't go on.

I'm also sending the SEI support team this thread and video link to see if they have any further thoughts or suggestion. Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. Looking forward to a solution!

YouTube
 

Bt Doctur

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Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

from what I see ,to make it easier, block up the drive a bit higher . I dont see where your making sure the shift shoe is facing in a straight line(fwd).It does appear your turning the prop CCW a bit to line everything up.Look to see if the shift shoes are lined up .both should be in a straight line.
outside chance there is a slight case difference resulting it hitting the rams, try removing one to slide them apart more.
Other than that ,maybe your old input shaft has worn splines and the new shaft being new has more squared off splines /alignment is slightly off?
 
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MarkSee

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Sep 10, 2010
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1,172
Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

I dont see where your making sure the shift shoe is facing in a straight line(fwd).It does appear your turning the prop CCW a bit to line everything up.Look to see if the shift shoes are lined up .both should be in a straight line.
outside chance there is a slight case difference resulting it hitting the rams, try removing one to slide them apart more.

I would suggest checking these as BD says at least on the video you aren't getting under there to check the shift shoe/shaft alignment and I remember on my a1 g2 the front rams could get in the way so you might want to remove that and see if it makes a difference.

Mark
 

MikDee

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Jun 6, 2007
Messages
4,745
Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

Nothing a 20lb "Persuader" can't fix! :lol: Seriously, block up your drive a bit more, like Boat Doctur said. Have you tried turning the spline 1/2 a turn, then try it. I myself might even turn it 1/4 of a turn at a time if that don't work what have you got to lose?
 

MightyEsquilax

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Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

Thank you again for the suggestions. I know it's hard to believe but I HAVE verified the shift shoes many many times and they are aligned correctly. As I posted previously, they are not yet in contactwhen the SEI drive gets "stuck" so they are not a factor yet. Also recall, the old unit slides on easy no effort (as you can see in the video) and the new unit does not.

I did not verify the shift shoes in the video. I made the video at the end of the day after mounting both old drive and new drive at least a dozen times. I will send another video when I have the upper unit back from SEI and show the state of the shift shoes to satisfy curious minds.

For now, SEI has the unit and they are reviewing any areas of potential problem.

Thank you for taking the time to review the video and help I'll keep you all posted!
 

UNSUREBOATGUY

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Sep 14, 2009
Messages
117
Re: Engine Coupler Worn?

Old coupler grease stuck in the coupler splines? Not a problem with old worn input shaft, but a problem with new shaft? Grasping at straws a bit :)
 
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