Engine Ran With No Oil

[humbled1]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

For what it is worth, I agree with Howard. All a lab analysis is going to do is cost you some money and give you a detailed analysis that will be more than likely meaningless to the "average Joe." It will also likely fail to give you what you are looking for - peace of mind. There is a saying - "Ignorance is bliss." Most of the time, that's a bad thing... but in this case. Since we are all "ignorant" - meaning there is no way to know what damage, if any was done... My suggestion lines up with what most are saying. Forget about it for the time being. Enjoy your winter. Chances are better than good that your engine is fine.

I hear what you're saying. I spoke with one outfit and they said someone will explain the results in plain English because I told them I was not chemical or mechanical engineer, thats obvious, You right, I should forget for now but I just too curious to find out.

 

[humbled1]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

BTW, thanks again to everyone!

 

[mikeneal]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

I disagree, an oil analysis will give a list of oil particulates along with "normal" values. It will show things like lead, copper from bearings, steel from cam lobes and all kinds of things you will never see with naked eye after cutting apart a filter. I have used Blackstone labs and I think it is like 22 bucks or something. True a history would be best but there are tons of things they can tell from the 1st sample IMO. Bearing material, etc. is never "normal" so you dont need a history for those numbers. Obviously he is worried and I stand by my original opinion that it is cheap and if it helps him feel better what can it hurt? QUOTE=Howard Sterndrive;1897375]Oil sample probably wouldn't tell you anything useful. Unless you have a historical set of samples for that motor, you don't know what's normal.
Plus, the labs filter the used oil to approx. 20 microns before analysis. Bearing material from a 5 minute run wouldn't be making particles that small yet. You could ask for a particle count (centrifuge analysis counts larger chunks) for additional charge, but still, with no trend, you don't know what's normal for your motor.
Cutting the filter the only proactive step. The filter traps 50 micron and larger bits that can be seen with the naked eye.[/QUOTE]

 

[MikDee]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

If it's a used engine, all parts are smooth, & worn in, working in unison, & fairly friction free with constant use, there's a coating of oil left on everything when shut off, drained, and restarted shortly afterward. Friction causes heat build up, and expansion of parts, but I doubt you ran it long enough to lose that oil (lubrication coating) and build up sufficient heat, & friction, to cause any damage. If so your engine would be giving you hints, or talking to you, in no uncertain terms! As was mentioned here, usually the lifters are the first thing to start making noise, and even after that I've seen dry engines refilled with oil, then run forever after that like nothing ever happened at all. Yes, you might have put some extra wear on it, but I doubt enough to worry about, It should be just fine

 

[humbled1]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

If it's a used engine, all parts are smooth, & worn in, working in unison, & fairly friction free with constant use, there's a coating of oil left on everything when shut off, drained, and restarted shortly afterward. Friction causes heat build up, and expansion of parts, but I doubt you ran it long enough to lose that oil (lubrication coating) and build up sufficient heat, & friction, to cause any damage. I maybe ran 60 seconds max If so your engine would be giving you hints, or talking to you, in no uncertain terms! As was mentioned here, usually the lifters are the first thing to start making noise, Nope never sound and even after that I've seen dry engines refilled with oil, then run forever after that like nothing ever happened at all. Yes, you might have put some extra wear on it, but I doubt enough to worry about, It should be just fine

Yes I will be getting the oil analysis for sure, for 22-28 bucks?? Heck, I spent that alone on antifreeze winterizing 2 x Thanks for the input

 

[Spookeay]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

Just run it. If it Knocks clicks or clanks, you are in no worse shape that you would have been if it came apart the day you forgot to fill it. There are 2 things you can do. Pull the engine down and mic it or run it. It's a easy mistake I have done it my self. Only once I should say......:redface:

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

It will show things like lead, copper from bearings, steel from cam lobes

don't think there'd be much of that in the oil that's only 5 minutes old...

None of that stuff floats either.

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

sorry, duplicate post

 

[Robj]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

There is no point in doing the oil analysis now, just a waste of $$. Maybe midway through next season, or at the end of the season, because the oil is clean and no real wear has taken place. I too feel it will tell you useful information with regards to the condition of your bearings. I think the finer detail metal contents are spectrographic. Not sure, has been a while since I looked at analysis results. Well worth the investment though.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[KJSmitty]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

Don't feel bad Humbled1,

As they say, there are those that have and those that will... Most anyone that works on their own or others stuff has done something like this before.. We're only human.

I agree with Robj above. This may have been your plan all along yet definitely give the oil currently in your 5.0 a season etc prior to sending in a sample. Once you decide on a lab read their capturing instructions as well prior to gathering your sample.
I've sent in a few myself and "history" isn't a necessity for your concern. The lab will tell you whether their are excessive amounts of any substance/material in the oil given the parameters etc. If everything is OK, engines / oil samples will always show an amount of wear particles. If your engine is fine your sample should be in the "normal" reading for lead/copper/aluminum/iron etc.. If it comes back with high readings yet the engine is still running quiet/fine, then send in another sample at the following oil change to see if there is any change.

Easy for us to say but all one can do at this point is put it behind you and hope/pray for the best. As MikDee stated: you most likely put a little extra wear on it but nothing worth worrying about.

-A fellow mechanic at the dealership I worked at purposefully blew up an old 350 Chevy stock-car motor at the end of his racing season. He pulled it in the shop, drained the oil and then started/ran it at near 6K rpm. Took near 3 minutes for it to start coming apart. We all just stood around amazed that it lasted that long..

Best of luck!!

 

[Maclin]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

A common fund raising attraction at car-related events is to obtain a donated car where the engine still runs, and remove the coolant and oil and make sure it can run at full throttle, then take bets on how long it will last. It takes a long time to blow most of them, kind of fun when it is not yours....

I really think you are good to go....

 

[humbled1]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

I remember the engine was pretty much all cooled down when I started it up for fog it that day and then realized I forgot the oil.

 

[mcimichell]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

I agree with most of the guys above, you shouldn't worry at all!
Next summer it'll be roaring like always!

 

[asdasc]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

What TV commercial was that where they drained the oil from the engines and let them run? STP oil treatment or something. It seems they ran for hours before failing, didn't they?

 

[humbled1]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

What TV commercial was that where they drained the oil from the engines and let them run? STP oil treatment or something. It seems they ran for hours before failing, didn't they?

There have been several that have come to mind since last Saturday. Mobile 1, Valvoline, Slick 50 and a couple of others. I had 40W dino marine oil before changing it. I never goes below 60*F so I run straight weight in it all the time.

I am waiting for my stuff to come in to mail my oil sample to be tested. i will post results when I get it back. I can believe how many views this thread has to date.

 

[humbled1]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

I got my kit in the mail so I will be sending it in this week. I decided not to wait because I am just plain curious to find out. I'll do it again in spring after running the boat a bit more.

Thanks for all the posts!

 

[meesh]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

We did the same as the above post at our shop years ago. We put a little GM V6 out in the yard no coolant, no oil, tied open the carb and let it scream. Took about 8 miutes to lock her up tight. And that was in the 80"s when those motors were not what they are today. I'm sure you did no damage, but go ahead and lab check the oil. The peace of mind will be worth the twenty bucks, then you can relax this winter.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

What TV commercial was that where they drained the oil from the engines and let them run? STP oil treatment or something. It seems they ran for hours before failing, didn't they?

I can't believe this thread is still going and going and going! It just goes to show that anything oil is something people want to talk about I guess....!!




Briggs & Stratton did a similar test with Slick50 several years ago......

Here's an excerpt from Fred Rau's 1992 article:

10. The Infamous "No Oil" Demo

At at least three major motorcycle rallies this past year, we have witnessed live demonstrations put on to demonstrate the effectiveness of certain oil additives. The demonstrators would have a bench-mounted engine which they would fill with oil and a prescribed dose of their "miracle additive." After running the engine for a while they would stop it, drain out the oil and start it up again. Instant magic! The engine would run perfectly well for hours on end, seemingly proving the effectiveness of the additive which had supposedly "coated" the inside of the engine so well it didn't even need the oil to run. In one case, we saw this done with an actual motorcycle, which would be rid den around the parking lot after having its oil drained. A pretty convincing demonstration - until you know the facts. Since some of these demonstrations were conducted using Briggs and Stratton engines, the Briggs and Stratton Company itself decided to run a similar, but somewhat more scientific, experiment. Taking two brand-new, identical engines straight off their assembly line, they set them up for bench-testing. The only difference was that one had the special additive included with its oil and the other did not. Both were operated for 20 hours before being shut down and having the oil drained from them. Then both were started up again and allowed to run for another 20 straight hours. Neither engine seemed to have any problem performing this "minor miracle."
After the second 20-hour run, both engines were completely torn down and inspected by the company's engineers. What they found was that both engines suffered from scored crankpin bearings, but the engine treated with the additive also suffered from heavy cylinder bore damage that was not evident on the untreated engine.
This points out once again the inherent problem with particulate oil additives: They can cause oil starvation. This is particularly true in the area of piston rings, where there is a critical need for adequate oil flow. In practically all of the reports and studies on oil additives, and particularly those involving suspended solids like PTFE, this has been reported as a major area of engine damage.

As you can see on my signature, I used to have a 460 in my boat.....My brother bought it new, didn't winterize it one year back in the 90's and had to have the engine replaced.

I got it about 200 hours later and it had a flat camshaft when I got it.

He put Slick 50 in it for that 200 hours before I got it. Draw your own conclusions.


Regards,


Rick

 

[mylesm260]

Something to keep in mind.....

Something to keep in mind.....

One thing to keep in mind with rotating objects and wear.
The rate of wear is equal to the square of the RPMS.

Ever take a grinding disc designed to run at 12,000 rpms and run it at 4500 rpms?

So at idle you're "wear factor" would be 800 squared which is 640,000

To put things in perspective, had you been running at 4000 rpms, you wear factor would have been 16,000,000.

So you did less damage idling for your 45 seconds at 800 rpms, than you would have for 2 seconds at 4000 rpms.....

This also explains why it is good practice to let your engine idle for a minute or two before you jump on the throttle.

 

[humbled1]

Re: Engine Ran With No Oil

Well like I said, I remember starting it up it maybe ran for 20 seconds, I shut it off for a second or two started it back up and then fogged as quickly as I could. Total run time is under one minute at idle.