Engine won't shut off?

[Mercs and such]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

Turbine doctor, thanks for the help. This seemed to be the best help so i thank you again! Anyways, I would just like to state that I have heard of people replacing plug wires and they still arc. Should i just see if i can get the carb to get fuel and then see if the arcing stops.

Is it possible that it is grounding because there is no fuel flow? but then again when i spray gas into the bottom carb intake, the motor picks up

Im still amazed that they would be doing that.

at night, you can literly see the entire wire in a blue outiline and the whole plug in a perfectly round spark discharge.

I had the stator replaced but i did notice it has a little orange sticker on it. I was stunned when i saw it. IT was a 3cyl. stator now i don't know if it really matters but what if there is too much spark? i still have my old stator but I highly doubt it broken i think the mechanic was just trying to get some cash on hand.


any suggestions turbinedoctor??

 

[turbinedoctor]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

Mercs, The the arcing has nothing to do with the fuel in the carb. No fuel in the carb has nothing to due with arcing, grounding or any other electrical problem short of the engine not cranking over when you turn the key. When you get fuel into the carb you will still have arcing. The arcing is due to the wire insulation breaking down. Keep in mind there is somewhere around 40,000 volts or more going through these wires and any crack or break down is going to let it arc. With my experience working in a power plant we have cables with a conductor the size of your pinky finger wrapped in insulation. The outside of the cable is about 1.5 inches. If the insulation on one of these cables starts to break down I hope I am nowhere near it. Granted these are 13,800 volt cables but you get the picture of how much insulation is need to prevent arcing.

Getting fuel to the carb is important for the lubration of the engine as well as it running on those cylinders.

As for the 3 cylinder verse 4 cylinder stator, I don,t know if a 3 cylinder stator will bolt up to your engine. If it does then I would make sure I have the correct one installed.

I don't know what kind of boating you do or where you go, but as for me, I try to make sure everything is in top notch shape. When going offshore it can be pretty hard finding some one who is willing to give up their time to come and get you.

Work on getting fuel to the carb. Did you check the needle valve yet to see if it is freely moving open and closed?

Durwood

 

[funk6294]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

Turbine doctor is right on the money that this is three seperate problems. Replace the plug wires, if you are seeing them arc out then they are in need of replacement. Putting electrical tape on them will do nothing as that tape does not provide enough insulation to stop the voltage. For your fuel issue pull the carbs off and check the needles and make sure they are not hung up.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

Follow Turbine Doctor's directions

When you replace the plug wires also replace the boots AND the spark plugs.

Be sure to get the correct parts, DO NOT ATTEMPT to 'make' your own wires from automotive spark plug wires, outboard ignitions are much hotter and automotive 'resistor'' wire will not hold up very long.

Your new stator 'could' be a CDI stator, the box for a couple of their stators is labeled for 2,3 and 4 cyl motors, and can be used in all three systems. Your ignition coils are firing, so your stator is working correctly and not related to your problems.

 

[saumon]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

Mercs and such: you were asking for advices and a lot of people who know a bit of what they were talking about are trying to help you so you should, at least, follow their advices.

OK, listen:

- no fuel, no spark and grounded switch are UNRELATED
- buy an OEM manual
- clean the carbs
- change the wires
- found the short

Sorry for being a bit rude but you don't seems, or don't want, to listen at what people are trying to tell you...

 

[achris]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

Durwood, saumon, and others that reply to Merc and suches threads,

He has started about 5 threads on all of these various problems. He has been told all the things to do. He has been told to buy a genuine manual. He seems to be thinking that there is one single thing he can fix that will solve all these UNRELATED problems, and doesn't want to listen when told to solve each problem individually.

The first time he mentioned plug leads arcing, I told him to REPLACE the leads. He wrap insulting tape around them and told me it was fixed. I told him to buy the manual. He said it was too expensive. I told him the black/yellow lead problem was a short somewhere and he asked if anyone else had any ideas...

I'm done with this engine....

Lord help us if he ever tries to replace an impeller.

Chris........

 

[saumon]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

I agree. I give up too!

 

[Mercs and such]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

Ok everyone sorry for not listening to you guys

-I ordered the OEM manuel for $80.00 so im sure its worth it.

-I managed to get the carb off and replace the float and needle which was stuck like funk said.

-As for the plug wires, I plan on ordering 4 new ones with boots for both ends.


I didn't even realize i went way overboard with these posts and most I restated constantly and or didn't realize i was saying the wrong thing.

 

[achris]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

Ok everyone sorry for not listening to you guys ....

Apology accepted (I never could stay mad at anyone. )

One last problem to solve, and it should be easy....

Here's what you do... (Print these instruction out and take them with you!)

1. With the key in the ON position, engine NOT running.
2. Disconnect the black/yellow (kill) wire from the switchbox.
3. With the kill wire on the red meter lead and the black meter lead on the engine, check the resistance to the engine ground. As you have a fault you should be getting close to zero ohms. (a short)
4. Disconnect the plug for the harness that runs up to the control box.
5. Check the resistance on the kill wire as per instruction #3.

If it's still close to zero (a short), then the problem is on the engine somewhere. If the resistance is now very high (open circuit), then the problem is in the control box or the harness. (You did check the safety kill switch didn't you?)

Chris........

 

[turbinedoctor]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

Hang in there Mercs, we'll get you through this. Everyone has to start learning about these things sometime and now is yours.

Chris has laid out a nice step by step plan of attack for the kill circuit. Just take your time and follow it closely and keep an open mind. Write down readings and findings if you need too for later reference.

Good to hear that you ordered the OEM manual, probably the best $80 you will spend on this engine. I started with the Clymers then bought the Mercury manual. There is a big difference in the details of trouble shooting between the two.

Glad you found the stuck needle valve. If the carbs were recently rebuilt you may not have to do much more. Don't be in too big of a hurry to put the top back on your carb yet, when you get the manual go to the carb section and it will tell you how to adjust the float. This is pretty important and should be followed closely. I would even say you should check the other one also.

Plug wires are a must according to what you have described in previous posts. Most electrical tape is only rated to around 600 volts and as stated earlier the plug wires are carrying 40,000 or more. this high of a voltage will leak through the tape like it isn't even there.

All ways work on one problem at a time until you come to a stopping point such as waiting for parts, then clear your mind and start working on another problem if needed. Don't try to work two or more at once, it gets very confusing even to some who have a lot of experiance.

In closing, you will find that people in this forum are more than willing to give of their time to help answer most any question you might have. Respect the fact that they are trying to help and follow instructions given before telling them that they are wrong unless you know more the them.

Durwood

 

[sschefer]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

I didn't see where anyone answered your question about 3 vs. 4 cylinder stators in this post. They are the same but are wired differently at the switch box. There are/were/might still be, two different styles. One is regulated with a inline regulator and the other is not. The wiring diagram in your new manual will show you the correct type and wiring.

Sounds like you're on the right track now. These motors (all motors) often seem to defy logic and you can really confuse yourself unless you follow specific testing procedures. You're new manual will have very specific and easy to understand trouble shooting flow charts that are correct for your motor. That's why a lot of us have moved away from using the multi-year/multi-model condensed style manuals and have purchased the Merc Manuals.

 

[Mercs and such]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

achris, I printed it out, and plan on getting that tester. However, what do you mean by the safety kill switch?

feel free to call me an idiot but is that the little toggle switch on the control box?

 

[achris]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

achris, I printed it out, and plan on getting that tester. However, what do you mean by the safety kill switch?

feel free to call me an idiot but is that the little toggle switch on the control box?

Yes idiot! (just havin' fun )

That switch should be in the RUN position... Don't know which control box you have, but usually it's the up position.

Chris.......

 

[Mercs and such]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

hahaha achris had to get it out of you anyways, its the quicksilver control box. it has the button in the center of the gear shifter for the high idle. I hope when i check it tommorow, i see the switch in the off position and that will take a load off me but if it isn't I'm going to have to get that tester ( i bet its shorting out in the control box if anywhere) but in the clymers manuel of the wiring diagram, it shows the black yellow wire going to the post on the switchbox, then it splits off and attaches to the terminal block and it looks like a "mercury switch" im not quite sure.

 

[achris]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

... then it splits off and attaches to the terminal block and it looks like a "mercury switch" ...

Correct... That mercury switch should be mounted at an angle... It's there to shut off the ignition if the engine kicks up for any reason.... The idea is that if you're flying along and the engine hits a log and kicks up it will stop spark until the engine falls back down into the water... Engine with throttle open and the load suddenly comes off (prop out of the water) = pistons leave the building... ...

If that switch is mounted wrong, or faulty, then it will have exactly the effect you're seeing... That doesn't mean it's the problem, just that it's one of the things to check, once you're isolated whether it's in the engine or control box/harness.

Chris..........

 

[Mercs and such]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

Ok the mercury switch i see it its right next to the rectifier. Its mounted to the aluminum plate that the switchbox and rectifier is attached to with a screw and thats all i see. how about the terminal block?

 

[achris]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

Ok the mercury switch i see it its right next to the rectifier. Its mounted to the aluminum plate that the switchbox and rectifier is attached to with a screw and thats all i see. how about the terminal block?

It should have a couple of wires. One short black one, that attaches to the plate, and a black/yellow that goes to the kill terminal on the switchbox.

And the mercury switch should be mounted at an angle of about 45 degrees.

Chris.....

 

[Mercs and such]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

It should have a couple of wires. One short black one, that attaches to the plate, and a black/yellow that goes to the kill terminal on the switchbox.

And the mercury switch should be mounted at an angle of about 45 degrees.

Chris.....

ok so heres what im looking at.

Mercury switch appears to be at 45 degrees, has short black one with a circle end on it attached to the plate with a screw but thats it. the rest is a blk/yel wire that splits into 2 im guessing as you mentioned, to the switchbox and the other to the plate along with the merc switch.

 

[achris]

Re: Engine won't shut off?

ok so heres what im looking at.

Mercury switch appears to be at 45 degrees, has short black one with a circle end on it attached to the plate with a screw but thats it. the rest is a blk/yel wire that splits into 2 im guessing as you mentioned, to the switchbox and the other to the plate along with the merc switch.

Photograph it... Don't quite understand what you're trying to say....