Erratic timing

[Jayrock]

1996 Evinrude Oceanpro 200

I have a weird issue with my motor. I did the Reeves wot timing procedure, and having issues. Starts up just fine, sounds a touch rougher than normal, but not too noticeable. After the Quickstart shuts off the motor will often sputter and die. sometimes with a lean sneeze, some times just dies. I hooked up the timing light, and noticed that the timing on the #1 cylinder was all over the place. every 2nd or 3 flash would be 18deg btdc. This seems to high for Idle, but what do I know. when the motor finally starts to Idle down the timing just flashes on the 18deg mark for a few seconds then dies. Should I just scrap the Reeves procedure? after I did the Reeves timing method, there was almost no threads on the adjuster screw. Is that normal? I had to lube up the timer base. That is the reason for the timing adjustments in the first place. Thanks for any input before I take this project on... jason

 

[Jayrock]

Re: Erratic timing

I just went out and moved the timer base as far back as I could while it was running. The lowest the timing would get is TDC. I screwed the Idle speed screw all the way in to move the timer base back, but like I said, the lowest timing I can get is TDC.The timing should be 6deg before TDC. I have verified that the pointer is correct in accordance with the manual. The timing still erratic, but not near as bad as it was. also it still dies. a little cough or so, then kaput. what the heck?

 

[dew2]

Re: Erratic timing

Is the key on the shaft that lines the flywheel bent?

 

[Jayrock]

Re: Erratic timing

No. I put a new one in today. I will swap coilpacks tomorrow and see if that clears up the spark issue. But Iam stumped on the timing problem.

 

[boobie]

Re: Erratic timing

Find the black/white wire on the port temp sender, take the connector apart and ground out the wire from the harness to the block and see what happens.

 

[Jayrock]

Re: Erratic timing

Find the black/white wire on the port temp sender, take the connector apart and ground out the wire from the harness to the block and see what happens.

You mean disable quickstart? Ok, I tried that, But will do it again tomorrow and record the timing. Iam starting to think the pack may be no good. I will post results in am.

 

[boobie]

Re: Erratic timing

When you had the flywheel off did you grab ahold of the center magnet and see if it was loose? Yes it is also possible you have a bad pack on it.

 

[Jayrock]

Re: Erratic timing

The magnets were solid, I made sure of that. Now listen to this!
I believe I fixed the spark issue. I put a new coil on the #1 cylinder, spark is stable now. but here is the weird part I did not notice before.
the engine will idle fine, then get weird and sputter then die. I had my brother start the motor, while I was looking at the timing and notice that the engine would cough, then the FLYHEEL WOULD START ROTATING THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION!!! It runs like crap when it does this then dies. WTF?!?!?!
That cant be good, but what is causing it to do that?

 

[ONERCBOATER]

Re: Erratic timing

reed valve two strokes can run in either direction provided the timing is close enough to allow the spark to ignite the fuel air mix.
I would hazard a suggestion that you bring number one cylinder to top dead center, mark the flywheel and something that is close to the flywheel and stabile unmoving, it will not be true TDC without a dial indicator but very close. then check that timing mark against the marks you are using now, that is what allowed me to fix my misbehaving merc yesterday. with the new timing marks at idle or around there you would likely be close to TDC timing and able to see if it was off, my merc was WAY off and ran fine with exception of idle.... and yes i know this is a johnnyrude forum, just trying to help.

Sean

 

[Jayrock]

Re: Erratic timing

reed valve two strokes can run in either direction provided the timing is close enough to allow the spark to ignite the fuel air mix.
I would hazard a suggestion that you bring number one cylinder to top dead center, mark the flywheel and something that is close to the flywheel and stabile unmoving, it will not be true TDC without a dial indicator but very close. then check that timing mark against the marks you are using now, that is what allowed me to fix my misbehaving merc yesterday. with the new timing marks at idle or around there you would likely be close to TDC timing and able to see if it was off, my merc was WAY off and ran fine with exception of idle.... and yes i know this is a johnnyrude forum, just trying to help.

Sean

Huh, I did not know that no damage could occur if the motor ran backwards. My knowledge of automobile engines had me freaked out a little. My timing marks are dead on. I used a hollowed out spark plug, then tapped the spark plug to accept a 3/8 bolt. I use this all the time. In The linc-n-sync procedure in the manual it gives an easy way to index the flywheel. I have done that and The timing pointer lines up perfectly with TDC Thanks for the tip though.

 

[Jayrock]

Re: Erratic timing

I have been tinkering with the motor. I disconnected the throttle cable, so i can rev the motor by hand while watching the timing. Interesting stuff going on. as I rev the engine slowly the spark goes from erratic to steady and it hits its mark 6deg ATDC. As I advance the throttle slowly, the timing advances like it should. the spark is steady, and strong. the only time the spark is erratic, and timing off is when the throttle is closed the last 10% or so. Jason

 

[ONERCBOATER]

Re: Erratic timing

ummm i didnt say no damage would occur, i just said they CAN run backwards.
the biggest damage i would be worried about would be the abrupt reversal of the engine and the torque that must put on the crank where the flywheel connects. I know in smaller two stroke engines (20cc to 50cc) or so simply moving the timing to the appropriate location and spinning engine the other way is all that is needed. Often made me wonder why OMC and Merc didn't do that for counter rotating engines lol, just doing the lower units was likely much cheaper though.
as far as the erratic spark what comes to mind is perhaps idle speed? maybe too low to get good spark off the magneto?? not sure on this one.
other thoughts loose magnets on flywheel? loose stator? or electronic component failing.

I am sure someone will chime in that is far more knowledgeable than I.

 

[daselbee]

Re: Erratic timing

Based on what you posted, look at the coil wires on the port side. You probably have #2 and #4 swapped. Been there, done that.

The top coil primary wire must be orange/blue, the center is orange, and the bottom is orange/green.

 

[boobie]

Re: Erratic timing

OMC built a counter rotating mtr (200 -225 hp) in 1987 and Merc built one in the 60's to get reverse gear.

 

[Jayrock]

Re: Erratic timing

Based on what you posted, look at the coil wires on the port side. You probably have #2 and #4 swapped. Been there, done that.

The top coil primary wire must be orange/blue, the center is orange, and the bottom is orange/green.

Thanks for that, But thats not it either. I pulled the flywheel again to double check the magnets, both center and outer. Solid as can be. I also double checked the powerpack wiring. all looks normal. Rectifier is putting out good voltage according to the voltmeter. So I Imagine the stator should be good, since all the wires look clean no damage. The timerbase pickups on the inside were greasy, so I cleaned them up. They look good now. I put it all back together, set the timing to were it was before i removed the flywheel, stator, timer base to lube it up (counted the threads). I fired the motor. Roared to life, as usual. Checked spark/timing again. All over the place. I checked the rest of the cylinders as well. all over the place. The #5 cylinder was lighting up the timing mark for the #1 cylinder at times. Seems like the coils are firing 3 times faster than they should be. Then the motor calms down as Im On #1 Cylinder. Timing is perfect, 6deg ATDC for like 2 seconds, then the motor dies. I am leaning towards a bad powerpack at this moment in time... Thanks for your responses guys. Jason

 

[boobie]

Re: Erratic timing

From what you just said I'll go along with a bad power pack.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Erratic timing

I retired from the business in 1991 so my knowledge of the 1996 model's circuitry is pretty close to being zilch. However.........

The older V6 models (among others), especially the ones with dual powerpacks had a diode built into the pack that prevented cross firing between cylinder banks. If this diode failed for any reason, that allowed any firing starboard cylinder to also fire the port starboard cylinder at the identical moment..... and vice versa.

One could easily check the diode by connecting a ohm meter between the WHITE wire of the powerpack and the BLACK/YELLOW of the same powerpack. A good diode would show a reading in one direction and none (reversing meter wires) in the other direction.

As stated, I'm not familiar with your engine's circuitry and my reply may be a waste of time BUT I'm sure that someone here with absolute knowledge of that circuitry will jump in with further word on this subject.

 

[Jayrock]

Re: Erratic timing

I retired from the business in 1991 so my knowledge of the 1996 model's circuitry is pretty close to being zilch. However.........

The older V6 models (among others), especially the ones with dual powerpacks had a diode built into the pack that prevented cross firing between cylinder banks. If this diode failed for any reason, that allowed any firing starboard cylinder to also fire the port starboard cylinder at the identical moment..... and vice versa.

One could easily check the diode by connecting a ohm meter between the WHITE wire of the powerpack and the BLACK/YELLOW of the same powerpack. A good diode would show a reading in one direction and none (reversing meter wires) in the other direction.

As stated, I'm not familiar with your engine's circuitry and my reply may be a waste of time BUT I'm sure that someone here with absolute knowledge of that circuitry will jump in with further word on this subject.

That makes complete sense. It seems as if every cylinder is going off (sparking) at the same time. the engine idles, albeit rough, but enough to check the timing and stuff. This is strange. It was running just fine until I had to grease up the timer base, Now its acting up. in the next few weeks I will replace the pack, and probably the other 5 coils. I will post the results after I do so. Thanks, Jason

 

[nymack66]

Re: Erratic timing

Quick question if this engine ran counter rotating as stated what will happen to the impeller which is curved or cupped to turn in one direction? My common sense tells me the rubber blades may be broken or busted the plastic housing?
Hopefully someone can shed some light on this?

 

[boobie]

Re: Erratic timing

Are you talking about the 1987 200 mtrs ?