ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

[montanaman]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

I recently returned from a country that exports its oil to us. They also have little or no environmental regs. If ethenol keeps the environment a little cleaner and helps the farmers then I'm all for it. I hope the great U.S.A never looks or smells like the place I just came from. I missed all of last boating season and I'm looking forward to this one weather I'm burning straight gas or mixed stuff.

 

[Gone]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

Originally posted by rickdb1boat:<br /> Are there any additives that can be used to fight off this deterioration? Are there new fuel related parts that should be installed to curb the effects(Either in the Tank, Lines, Carb, Etc.)? Would my 91' 70 Rude be affected by this? I pre-mix by the way....

Don't have old premixed gas sitting around for more than a week, IMO.

 

[imported_Curmudgeon]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

I was told the cost of a gallon of ethanol would be about 1.60.<br /><br />How on God's green earth (pun intended) could anyone predict the price of ethanol on the scale required for oil independance? What we have now can't even be marketed efficiently, and the full effect on the economy is way up in the air.<br /><br />And I disgree with your premise: clean systemns are more efficient that comparable dirty ones, but not necessorily "efficient" in the overall sense of the word.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

A recent History Channel (as I recall) documentary on Brazil's oil independence showed that there was a 2:1 difference in the cost of fossil fuel and grown energy....at the pump...showed the pumps in the same station and interviewed the taxi driver filling up with alcohol instead of gasoline.<br /><br />Mark

 

[Gone]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

Slightly off topic but...E-85 around here sells for $.02 cheaper($2.77/g) than 10% regular($2.79). That's a whopping .7% savings. Why would anyone in their right mind consider E85 knowing that they'll get worse mileage to boot??

 

[Captain Paul]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

Off topic even more. e85 Minnesota, $2.35 /g. 10% blend, $2.75 /g. Just filled up yesterday. I burn it in my f.f.v. at that price difference, but not at 2 cents a gallon.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

Last I heard on Ethanol it MIGHT raise octane, but it does NOT produce more power. It only produces something like 75% of the power of gas, which means you will use MORE to get the same effect. As has been stated along the line here (Rodbolt I think), you need re-jetting, and just what does that tell you.<br />And our loser lawmakers are a joke. Vote the *******s out...every damn one of them...

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

Back on topic, from all the conversaiton's i have seen it's time to revisit the 70's. Using grain alcohol in any gas system will have the followng effect's, remove any residual matter generated by "non alcohol" gas left over from years of use. When the 70's gas farse started it was the same thing only on a very large scale, most gas stations had to remove there bulk tanks and a large number of cars had a very bad time with grain alchol loosening all the old residual matter and sending the by product's upstream where it clogged filter's and valves. One more by product a true high compression engine will not do well with it. Remeber the late 70's were the end of true muscle cars.......... and with that said .....this whole gas thing is a scam on america and truly a big business "oil" ripoff... we have learned nothing. One or two scholar's once said history only repeats it's self...... i guess they figur its time again.

 

[ob]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

Tail_Gunner<br /><br />Maybe that's what happens when the change in the additives intended purpose is for the good of the environment and not of the engines.A local mechanic told me that his shop has experienced a recent increase in the number of fuel pumps and fuel related components that they replace on vehicles,but also states that since refiners have been using oxygenates in the fuel blends that it too created the same.This guy's owned his shop for about thirty years.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

How on God's green earth (pun intended) could anyone predict the price of ethanol on the scale required for oil independance?

I dont recall saying anything about oil independence. The article I read was in an aviation magazine over a year ago. <br /><br />

this whole gas thing is a scam on america and truly a big business "oil" ripoff

Where are you from? I doubt from any area greatly affected by the price of oil. I am. South Louisiana exists based on the oil and gas industry. The oil prices aren't set by "big oil" but on the world market. The Iran thing is having a huge affect on the price of gas. It would be like you selling widgets worldwide, and all of a sudden a country is willing to go to war over your widget and the cost goes through the roof. Well, you don't do anything but sit back and enjoy the profits. You didn't set the price, the world did.<br /><br />Scam on America? Britian has been paying almost 8 bucks a gallon for years and we don't hear them complaining, we do hear them laughing at our 3 bucks a gallon gas though.<br /><br />Don't think the price of ethanol will remain the same. After we begin converting over to it the prices will come down. People are skeptical about it now. Give it 5 to 10 years.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

actually High Compression engines really like alcohol, they just like a lot of it.<br />with methanol we can run 13/1 and a tad higher. we also had to run 100GPH plus pumps with regulators set at 12-15 PSI,1/2" fuel lines and holley carbs modified with very large alcohol specific needle valves and home made jetting as for a long time holley just did not make the big enough.<br /> that big block with 86 jetting at all 4 corners had to have the jetting changed to the 190+ plus range and stock inlet needles physically could not flow enough fuel.<br />our biggest fear was fire, until additives are in the methanol in burns with a colorless flame.<br /> ever noticed the old fourmular one crashes when the driver would hop out then jump up and down and wave?<br /> he was not indicating he was ok, he was indicating his butt was on fire.<br />the drivers on the road race courses my dad used to run on had to be breifed and trained by the track safty crew on how to indicate your on fire as the flame is invisible.<br />until the other flammibles are burning methanol and ethanol burn basically colorless.<br /> the concern for new vehicles is minimal, the guy with the 25 year old boat is gonna have issues.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

Don't have old premixed gas sitting around for more than a week, IMO.

Huhhhhhh???????

 

[Silvertip]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

SCATTY - If you are talking about regular fuel blended with 10% ethanol a large increase in octane is not a factor. On the other hand, E-85 15% regular fuel and 85% ethanol is 105 octane. Yes, your vehicle will burn more of it because it burns faster.

 

[QC]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

Originally posted by Upinsmoke:<br /> SCATTY - If you are talking about regular fuel blended with 10% ethanol a large increase in octane is not a factor. On the other hand, E-85 15% regular fuel and 85% ethanol is 105 octane. Yes, your vehicle will burn more of it because it burns faster.

Yes on octane, no on the reason it burns more. Higher octane fuels burn slower . . . <br /><br />The reason you need more ethanol is that it contains less energy per unit volume than gasoline. This is why comparing E85 gallon price to a gallon of gasoline is misleading . . . What you care about is miles per $, not miles per gallon, there is a huge difference.<br /><br />Here is a great link for all of you guys. You can make comparisons of any fuel. IMHO it is slightly incorrect on the BTU contents (stored heat/energy) of each fuel, but the fact is that BTU content is not fixed and depends on the actual blend and spec of the fuel i.e. gasoline has additives that do not provide energy and these can vary . . .<br /><br /> Build Your Own Fuel Comparison Chart

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

QC, the only reason you'd be concerned with miles per gallon is that you wouldn't be able to go as far on a tankful. Now if that tankful only cost a few bucks to obtain....<br /><br />I'd rather refuel more often for cheaper, wouldn't you?

 

[QC]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

waterinthefuel,<br /><br />Totally agree if range is not a concern.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

Originally posted by waterinthefuel:<br />

How on God's green earth (pun intended) could anyone predict the price of ethanol on the scale required for oil independance?

I dont recall saying anything about oil independence. The article I read was in an aviation magazine over a year ago. <br /><br />

this whole gas thing is a scam on america and truly a big business "oil" ripoff

Where are you from? I doubt from any area greatly affected by the price of oil. I am. South Louisiana exists based on the oil and gas industry. The oil prices aren't set by "big oil" but on the world market. The Iran thing is having a huge affect on the price of gas. It would be like you selling widgets worldwide, and all of a sudden a country is willing to go to war over your widget and the cost goes through the roof. Well, you don't do anything but sit back and enjoy the profits. You didn't set the price, the world did.<br /><br />Scam on America? Britian has been paying almost 8 bucks a gallon for years and we don't hear them complaining, we do hear them laughing at our 3 bucks a gallon gas though.<br /><br />Don't think the price of ethanol will remain the same. After we begin converting over to it the prices will come down. People are skeptical about it now. Give it 5 to 10 years.

Gonna be a little sarcastic here......Do you have any ideal how much 35 BILLION dollars really is... recently a oil company posted that as a yearly profit. think of it like this, It would take one person 1014 years 24 hour's a day to count that high. Quick math there, it could be a few hunderd years short..... Yes oil has gone up on pure speculation however as governments have so clearly stated they (oil comp) have invested no dollar's into (refining capacity) and yet pricing is skyrocketing, just google how many gallons of gas does a barrel of oil yeild and spread that over the cost per barrel......then compare the the recent jump @ the pump its almost halarious.<br /><br /><br />Scam on America? Britian has been paying almost 8 bucks a gallon for years and we don't hear them complaining, we do hear them laughing at our 3 bucks a gallon gas though.<br /><br /> Id check and see just how much of that is taxed,you migh be shocked.As with most of europe<br /><br /><br />Don't think the price of ethanol will remain the same. After we begin converting over to it the prices will come down. People are skeptical about it now. Give it 5 to 10 years. <br /><br /> It was proven in the 70's that is does not work.....Current grain pricing is based on old oil pricing, fertilizer is petroluem based and wtih the current price increase's the cost has almost doubled and that cost will be passed on. Its endless and almost mind bogging as to all the ramifications and implications this will cause. Just so some oil company can produce a 35 BILLION dollar profit.......I'm out... <br /><br />Edit: "Rodbolt" in adding so much alcohol doesn't that reduce the lubrication properties and is hard on the valves & heads?

 

[QC]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

 

[Silvertip]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

Might as well get the environmentalists involved too since they don't want refineries anywhere and would like you (not them though) out of your gas guzzlers and begin towing your boats (peddle powered of course) with bicycles. Actually QC's chart tells it like it is regarding U.S./Elsewhere fuel costs.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: ethanol blend gas WARNING !!!

notice the fuel costs are all similar but the tax is greater in places.