First Coat Of Awl Grip

ThomWV

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Messages
701
We put on the first color coat of Awl Grip on today. I was stunned with how it came out. Everything I've seen has said that you should be prepared to be disapointed after the first coat but to wait until the second. This thing looks better right now than it did the day it came out of the mold with just one coat. Also, as it looks right now the gallon I got will be enough to put at least 5 coats on the boat. We began with 4 coats of Awl Grip 545 primer, sanded between each coat. This was applied with a roller and tipped. My wife was out and about so I had to do it alone, but it would have been much better with her rolling and me following to tip it. Next coat will get that treatment, maybe as early as tomorrow.<br /><br />
firstcoat.JPG
<br /><br />Thom
 

doman

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
120
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

Looks awesome ...Great job<br /><br />Did you use regular paint roller ? <br />How did you prep the surface before applying the primer?<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Dom
 

Ryoken

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
179
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

looks great Thom... nothing like a smooth coat to make ya smile..<br /><br />musta been hustling pretty good by yourself ;) <br /><br />any particular reason your not spraying? compressor?
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
10
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

Can you spray Awl grip?If so should you use a HVLP gun or regular spray gun.Is this paint a one or two part system,Thanks.
 

ThomWV

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Messages
701
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

Hmmm, the prep work. Well, first off we had a hole about the size of a football in the side and there were 12 years worth of scrapes and bumps in the hull too. So I repaired all of them and then got started with the prep. We started with a hard wash down, this was done a couple of times with dish washing soap mixed with laundry detergent. After that we wiped it down with acetone. All of this was to get rid of any wax that might have been left on the hull, even though it had not been waxed in about 8 months at that time.<br /><br />After it was clean I used an orbital sander and 80 grit disks to sand the entire hull just as a start. After that the entire hull was sanded with 220 grit paper, wet of course. Then I fixed everything that was wrong with the hull, every little scratch, every little scrape. It did't matter how small. A final sanding with 220 and it was ready for primer. We used Awl Grip 545, rolled, but not tipped. Tipping actually made the primer worse. I also did some of the application with a Preval sprayer. That was used in the two areas where there is a molded in lip, the sprayer worked well for this job, one that would have required a brush because the radius is too tight to get at with a roller. Anyway each primer coat was followed by a wet sanding with 220. By the way, for all manner of reasons there were some spots that got more attention than others, so when I say there were 4 coats what I really mean is 4 times we went all the way around the boat in one continous coat. In truth there are spots that probably have 10 coats on them, where I just kept working on a local problem until I got it right. Actually the same thing is true of this first color coat. In truth I had done a couple of practice spots just to see how the paint worked before this first continous coat that you see in the picture. Those were on the other side of the boat though.<br /><br />I think the thing that has really amazed me most about this stuff is how much easier to use the color coat paint is than the primer was and how much nicer it lays down. The one thing about it though, it is certainly more prone to run than the primer was so adjustment in the amount of reducer was required. I am no painter, not by a long shot, so it is just counterintuitive to me to add more thinner when the paint runs. At any rate with this stuff the recommendation for the thinner is 25%~33% maximum but I'm starting with 33% and adding thimblefulls as I go.<br /><br />On the spray vs. roller question. I don't have a compressor but this certainly would have been a good excuse to go and buy one. I was going to do that, just because I've been meaning to buy a compressor for years and just never got around to it. The thing was that this paint is so dangerous to use when sprayed and I've been told that its very difficult to spray, so I had two reasons to go with a roller. If I had bought the compressor I would have had to use it and I wasn't willing to breath the stuff at all (you need to use pressurized breating air when you paint with this stuff) and I wasn't willing to waste the paint because of its cost. Please keep in mind, a gallon of this paint cost as much as a good sized compressor. At any rate, going out and looking at it this morning I realized that I could not have done a better job even if it had been sprayed.<br /><br />There are two things that I've learned from this that might be valuable to others. The first is thin the paint. Don't be bashful about adding the thinner and applying the paint thin. Every problem I had with using this paint, both the primer and the color coat, came from trying to apply it to thick. The second is that no coat of paint could be any better than the surface under it, so preparation was key. Sand paper is cheap, my labor is free, paint isn't. Prep that surface.<br /><br />Also, I really have to do one thing here. I hate painting and it shows. I had no idea how to go about this project but as luck would have it someone gave me a link to Tim Lackey's web site where he details the rebuilding of one of his sail boats. If you have an interest in any aspect of boat repair or refurbishing you owe it to yourself to spend a few hours on his web page. Anyway I E-Mailed Tim and he was good enough to take what must have been hours of his time explaing to me how to paint. I have never been given that much help by a total stranger in my life and I really do appriciate it. A fine fellow,<br /><br />Thom
 

Speakrdude

Ensign
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
942
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

Thom, Great looking project! I am about to embark on a very similar project. Was the Awlgrip two-part or single part? I am to the point of washing down, repairing, and sanding. I have everything stripped off now including the rub rail. Mine is an 84 model Bayliner 2750 (27.5') What's yours?<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />Speakrdude@aol.com
 

mike1234tampa

Seaman
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
Messages
60
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

ThomWV that is one pretty looking rig you got there, Awl Grip might be in my future, but not till the fall.
 

denniston

Cadet
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
29
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

That boat really does look amazing. Can anyone explain the difference between gelcoating and painting? Why one would be better than the other? How long this awl grip will last? From what I understand the gelcoat is more forgiving with surface imperfections? I too am getting dangerously close to refinishing my 18' Glasstron...check her out:<br /> http://www.wesleyanyouth.com/boat/
 

Link

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
4,221
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

Impressive to say the least! I'm going to send this link to my partner as his boat comes next! And that was done with a roller??? wow<br /><br />Link
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

Eh, what?, oh, but, ehh, absolutely awesome. :) <br /><br />Beautiful work Thom!!!!
 

ThomWV

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Messages
701
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

Awl Grip is a 2-part paint. Properly its a poly-something-or-another but most folks tend to lump them all together and call them epoxy paints. I am not a chemist and couldn't tell you the difference to save my life other than to say that they are much different from conventional paints in a few ways.<br /><br />One thing is that they shine more than any others. The other thing is that they are much harder than other paints and so resist scrapes and scratches. Another thing about Awl Grip is that once its on there you never wax the boat again, you just wash it off. Awl Grip will last about as long as gel coat. I say that because with roughly a 10~12 year life both of them will need refinishing with normal use at about the same time period. <br /><br />Some things about the paint though. First off its very expensive juice. You can look around but no matter where you go its just ain't cheap. I don't have the receipt here but I think I paid almost $300 for the gallon of it I bought. That does not include the cost of the primer, which if I remember correctly ran somewhere around $150 a gallon. The up side is that it doesn't take all that much.<br /><br />My boat is 23 feet with a full transom and a 8.5 foot beam. To make one full coverage coat on the hull alone required a little under 20 fluid oz. of the paint. Please keep in mind that when I said I had bought a gallon of the paint that its a misleading description. When you buy this stuff you buy the paint, which I got a gallon of; you buy the hardner, which is mixed at 50% by volume with the paint, and the thinner (different thinners required for brush or roller than spray). The mix ration is 2 parts paint to 1 part hardner with between 25%~33% of the thinner added to the total mix. So in mixing up a batch to do our hull I take a plastic mixing cup and put in 10 oz of paint, add to that 5 oz of hardner, and then another 4~5 oz of thinner. This is just over a pint of paint in total but what is important is that for my 23' boat I could easily put 10 coats of paint using a gallon. Three coats is plenty. So in retrospect I could have got away with just buying a quart of paint along with two pints of hardner and a quart of thinner (you use this stuff for cleanup too). It would have saved considerable money.<br /><br />Another thing. The primer for this stuff is just plain horrible to work with. It sags, it runs, it doesn't lay down very well, and it puts off nasty fumes. By contrast the actual color coats of paint are a dream to work with. You simply apply it with a roller as if you were in the process of running out of paint - try to stretch it as far as absolutly possible, and it will amaze you.<br /><br />You roll it on, and tip if if you like (despite what I've told you the fact is that tipping really isn't necessary) and you will see some brush strokes. If you come back 10 minutes later the brush strokes will be gone, if you didn't tip it what you will notice is that the dipple from the roller is pretty much gone. If you come back and look at it 30 minutes later you'll swear it looks like a spray job. What really stunned me was that the appearance of the stuff kept on improving for the next full day. Even after it was set enough that I could touch it without doing any harm it continued to lay flatter and flatter, and gain gloss as it went.<br /><br />This should amuse you. After dealing with the primer for the past several months I was ready to paint. The day before I began I ordered a VCR tape (that hasn't arrived yet) on how to apply Awl Grip with a brush. I figgured I could get away with one coat without the instructional tape because it was going to be sanded anyway. Now I know that the VCR wasn't at all necessary, though I still look forward to seeing it because I'm sure there are 1,000 things about this stuff that I am utterly clueless about.<br /><br />Thom
 

18rabbit

Captain
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

Looks good, Thom. Did I get this right?…you are going to knock down the sheen and apply a second coat? Or is she good to go with just the single coat?<br /><br />And what about the lettering? Rock Knocker on order? :)
 

ThomWV

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Messages
701
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

I am so tired I can not think ......<br /><br />As of yesterday morning there was no sheen left on the boat at all. We wet sanded it completely, twice, and then yesterday afternoon I put a second coat on it. It shines even more now and were it not for three runs I would call it a boat. However there are 3 runs in it, along with one small sag, so its back to the sand paper this morning and a third coat this afternoon. So its very close to done.<br /><br />I stopped at the sign shop thursday and will get back with the guy on monday. The lettering is going to be a bit different this time. Instead of having it read "Kock Knocker" in foot tall teal letters with black shadowing its just going to say "Knocker" this time, but in larger letters. He will also be making up new numbers for it at the same time and a new decal for the bracket (Gil) at the same time in the same color scheme. I know that it won't be legal but I'm going to have the numbers match the style and multi color of the rest of the lettering. If the Coast Guard doesn't like I'm absolutly certain they will let me know and I'll just have to redo them (we launch less than 100 yards from a Coast Guard Station). I bought a new Suzuki 225 engine and I plan to match the metalic gray they use for outlining and have the center sections of each letter done in that gold foil that looks like its machine turned, with the small swirls, probably with a small accent of red in it as well. This will also match up, to some extent, the gray color of my soft top and curtains. It may be old by it sure is gonna be pretty. :D <br /><br />I also bought a new rub rail for it and will have to get that on.<br /><br />I'll post another picture once I have it looking like a boat again. <br /><br />Thom
 

cpriore

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 29, 2003
Messages
32
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

is priming absolutely neccessary? If the gelcoat is fine and just lightly sanded will the paint adhere? Also what temperatures(outside) are you painting in?
 

Speakrdude

Ensign
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
942
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

Thom, What did you use to repair and fair your boat before you or after you primed?<br /><br />Thanks, <br /><br />Jim
 

ob15

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
514
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

That looks awesome! can I bring my boat over & have you do it? :)
 

ThomWV

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Messages
701
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

Chris JP.,<br /><br />I believe that the color coat does not bond as well as the primer and so the primer is necessary. At least that is how it was explained to me and I did not argue with the manufacurer. The manufactur required temperatures of 55 degrees or above and I followed directions to the letter.<br /><br />FunwithmySon,<br /><br />The color I chose is called Fleet White. I chose it because it was the closest color match to my original gel coat. I also used their white primer rather than the yellow. The reason for all the white was that if, or I should say when, I get a scratch in the boat it won't show up anywhere near as badly if it goes into a color that closly matches the paint.<br /><br />Dave,<br /><br />No.<br /><br /><br />SpeakrDude,<br /><br />I did the repairs exclusively in epoxy, I do not use polyester resin anymore at all. I get my epoxy from a small company in Florida called Raka Epoxy. The initial fairing was done with epoxy mixed with West Systems 404 High Denisty filler. The final touch up was done with NAPA's "Microlite" auto body filler. I wouldn't have used it but the last time I was down in Wancheese I noticed that it was what Dean Johnson was using for the finish work on his boats. If it was good enough for Dean it was good enough for me. For the really hard worked parts of the boat, like the keel line up at the bow where there were deep scrapes from bumping into ramps and such I did it all with epoxy and the high density filler alone. For simple little scrapes and scratches I used common glazing filler. Here is what it looked like before any priming other than spot priming with lacquer to test for fairness (all of which was sanded off before the actual Awl Grip primer was applied;<br /><br />
profile1.JPG
<br /><br /><br />In all I put 4 coats of paint on the boat and when it was all said and done this is what it looked like:<br /><br />
coat4.JPG
<br /><br />In the end there are still two places where it has runs and one sag. If we were to have sanded it all back down one more time I am sure we could have put on a final coat that would have had none of that. It just was not worth the effort. Next year we will be doing the top side, above the rub rail and all of the cabin and deck. At that time I may go ahead and reasand the hull and put another coat on it just to make it all the same age. I am sure we could do the job over again with a lot less effort put into it and for less money too.<br /><br />Thom
 

John Carpenter

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 1, 2002
Messages
336
Re: First Coat Of Awl Grip

Thom,<br /><br />That is just a heck of a nice job buddy...I am impressed. Thanks for sharing your experiences...again!
 
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