First rebuild - '89 Campion Allante 185 - Stringers, Deck, Transom

[steve_h7]

I really wish the thread didn't end with WOG's post and he had shared how it worked out.

 

[steve_h7]

Well I'm a resin virgin no more. :joyous: Pretty uneventful except for running my forehead into one of the all thread bars My sweat pants had hardened resin and blood all over them so I thought I'm truly on my way. LOL I ended up using 3 qts of PB... didn't use enough cabosil in one batch but by the end I was getting the hang of knowing how thick it should be and when was enough. It's been a couple hours now and it's hard as a rock but I guess I'll go ahead and leave the clamps on till morning. I'll start to use Titebond on the other layers tomorrow.
Thanks everyone for all the help to make it this far.

 

[Chris51280]

Sure takes alot of cabosil. About 1:1 in volume at least. With the tabbing and the final layers of 1708, you will go close through one 5 gallon bucket. Pictures?

 

[chevymaher]

By the end or your restore. You got the extra cups of resin ready to mix hardener in so you don't got to stop. Little pieces cut for corners in case you got extra resin to not waste.

 

[steve_h7]

By the end or your restore. You got the extra cups of resin ready to mix hardener in so you don't got to stop. Little pieces cut for corners in case you got extra resin to not waste.

I mixed 1 qt up because I had no idea how much I'd need or what I was doing and had another bucket with a qt in it and the hardener sitting next to it ready to go just in case... but when I dumped it on the 1st layer of plywood I realized I had no where near enough so I quickly poured another qt in the container (they were 2 qt buckets) with more hardener but this was the batch I really needed more cabosil because it didn't want to stay put on the hull. I did have a mixer for my drill and that was a godsend when mixing the 2 qts at a time. The tip on having the corner tabbing when you have extra resin is a good one. :thumb:

 

[steve_h7]

Sure takes alot of cabosil. About 1:1 in volume at least. With the tabbing and the final layers of 1708, you will go close through one 5 gallon bucket. Pictures?

:facepalm: What was I thinking
It's not pretty but it seems to be working great:

 

[steve_h7]

Frustrating day. I tried putting sheet #2 on and it was not fun. I didn't realize it with the first sheet with PB probably because it was on so thick and I didn't have another sheet under it to show every little space. And maybe I'm being overly concerned because honestly I have nothing to compare this build to, but I had a lot of noticeable gaps between the two sheets. I envisioned them being glued and looking like one sheet. Maybe that's unrealistic?? I wondered if I should be doing it differently and maybe use screws on each layer? The fact that I didn't cut the splash well enough to allow complete access to the transom didn't help, but the 1/4" ACX is so wavy that anywhere there isn't a clamp seems like there's a gap. I think even with better access to the transom I'd need a clamp ever inch or so.
So am I being overly critical or should I maybe stop and rethink this... maybe continue gluing but cut the plywood down into 3 pieces more like the original was and gluing them separately? Rip it all out and start over? Or does it even really matter as long as the center section is glued solidly? I'm not sure at this point.

 

[chevymaher]

That picture of your forehead. Ya know they got hammers you can use.

 

[Chris51280]

you could do PB between the layers instead of titebond or PL. That way it will fill the voids. It will still be strong even with voids. You will encase with 1708 and that will be very strong by itself. The layers will not slide or shift. And again, its way better than out of the factory.

 

[dezmond]

Did you clamp from the center out?? That would be important as well. 1/4" is a bugger to keep flat when you are laminating.

 

[steve_h7]

you could do PB between the layers instead of titebond or PL. That way it will fill the voids. It will still be strong even with voids. You will encase with 1708 and that will be very strong by itself. The layers will not slide or shift. And again, its way better than out of the factory.

I did wonder about using PB instead of the Titebond III. I found the Titebond more runny than I anticipated and it's why I added the one picture of it pooled on the hull under the transom. I cleaned it up several times and new pools kept forming so I lost a lot of glue. It's been a few hours now and it's stopped, but I don't think I would have seen the loss with PB. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. :thumb:

 

[steve_h7]

Did you clamp from the center out?? That would be important as well. 1/4" is a bugger to keep flat when you are laminating.

Yes, since we've discussed that the center section is really the original transom and the remaining "wings" are just places to hang the ladder and tie downs, I figured that was the most important section. It obviously seemed to glue the best because it's flat and the most accessible, but those outer edges had the most gaps. But the transom being in the middle made me wonder if the outer edges were all that critical and if tabbing and covering in 1708 would unify the whole thing in any event.

 

[froggy1150]

Screw it down and just as the resin is setting before it cures but enough to hold remove the screws. And next layer when spreading pb push into screw hole to fill.

 

[steve_h7]

Screw it down and just as the resin is setting before it cures but enough to hold remove the screws. And next layer when spreading pb push into screw hole to fill.

Yep, I think I'll give that a try, thanks. My real concern is the sheets are so thin that I'm not sure the screw will have enough to bite into and it won't hold... but being on the 3rd sheet now I think it's got a better chance of working.
Hopefully by the 5th or 6th sheet I'll have this figured out. Thanks again :thumb:

 

[kcassells]

Geez... sorry to see nothing worked after so many times tellin ya it was not the way to go. Your boat do what you want.
It was a 3pc install. All the backing and transom should have been solid 3/4" plywood.
I'd rip it out instead of adding more crapola on top of crapola. JMHO.

 

[sopwithcamel74]

Just got caught up on your adventures - following along now for the duration!

I'm far from a subject matter expert, but I do think kcassells has a valid point re: what may be a better approach. Regardless of which path you choose, don't give up - you'll figure out a way.

 

[steve_h7]

Geez... sorry to see nothing worked after so many times tellin ya it was not the way to go. Your boat do what you want.
It was a 3pc install. All the backing and transom should have been solid 3/4" plywood.
I'd rip it out instead of adding more crapola on top of crapola. JMHO.

I guess I probably deserved that post, but what really would have been nice is if back on about post #66 you'd chimed in when I was told by some senior members here that making it in one piece was the way to go:

https://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...9#post10670989

It's my first attempt at a rebuild and so I relied on advice I got and had already cut up $100 worth of plywood, so it was my call to give it a try. I specifically said that I'd be honest and relay how it went. I held up my end and told the truth and your post explains why more people either disappear when things don't go right or just sort of bury the truth so they don't turn out to be "wrong" and so the next new builder comes along and makes the same mistake again.
So just to put a bow on this post, had I wished I'd made the transom in a single piece and added the other pieces separately? Absolutely. And if you're finding this post many years from now and you discovered you have a transom constructed like mine which I understand that Bayliner as well as Campion have used, my advice would be to do it as kassells suggested and make them in pieces and glue them on one at a time, and then glass them all together like they were one. If you choose to ignore that advice and make it like I have done, the screw method of clamping the laminated pieces together works much, much better than trying to use clamps alone. That's my two cents.

 

[steve_h7]

Just got caught up on your adventures - following along now for the duration!

I'm far from a subject matter expert, but I do think kcassells has a valid point re: what may be a better approach. Regardless of which path you choose, don't give up - you'll figure out a way.

Thanks for joining Sop :thumb:
And he absolutely does and details are in the post above why I decided to give it a try. Good, bad, or indifferent I'll for sure not give up (yet).
And like I mentioned above, I put piece #3 on this morning and decided to give the Titebond III one more try, and this time after spreading it on I let it sit for 5-10 min. so it had time to skin up a little and that made a huge difference. I laid it up and put one clamp on and then used 3/4" screws to hold the edges tight and then put the rest of the large clamps on the center transom piece. I had very little glue runoff this time and it seemed a much better attachment. Thanks for your encouraging words.

 

[sopwithcamel74]

Thanks for joining Sop :thumb:
And he absolutely does and details are in the post above why I decided to give it a try. Good, bad, or indifferent I'll for sure not give up (yet).
And like I mentioned above, I put piece #3 on this morning and decided to give the Titebond III one more try, and this time after spreading it on I let it sit for 5-10 min. so it had time to skin up a little and that made a huge difference. I laid it up and put one clamp on and then used 3/4" screws to hold the edges tight and then put the rest of the large clamps on the center transom piece. I had very little glue runoff this time and it seemed a much better attachment. Thanks for your encouraging words.

No problem. I think that everyone who's chimed in is here to offer moral support. And I'm convinced that it's actually a good thing that there are differing opinions; in the end, I think that's what makes this the best restoration forum out there. There is a wealth of experience, tons of different methods for problem-solving, and an endless supply of genuine interest and encouragement.

What matters most is the end result. If you can turn what you've got there into a finished piece that'll support the weight (and torque) of your engine, then you're well on your way. If it takes another turn south, you've gained valuable experience and can likely offer great insight for someone else down the road. And, you have another approach at the ready that you can try at your leisure.

 

[kcassells]

I guess I probably deserved that post, but what really would have been nice is if back on about post #66 you'd chimed in when I was told by some senior members here that making it in one piece was the way to go:

https://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...9#post10670989

It's my first attempt at a rebuild and so I relied on advice I got and had already cut up $100 worth of plywood, so it was my call to give it a try. I specifically said that I'd be honest and relay how it went. I held up my end and told the truth and your post explains why more people either disappear when things don't go right or just sort of bury the truth so they don't turn out to be "wrong" and so the next new builder comes along and makes the same mistake again.
So just to put a bow on this post, had I wished I'd made the transom in a single piece and added the other pieces separately? Absolutely. And if you're finding this post many years from now and you discovered you have a transom constructed like mine which I understand that Bayliner as well as Campion have used, my advice would be to do it as kassells suggested and make them in pieces and glue them on one at a time, and then glass them all together like they were one. If you choose to ignore that advice and make it like I have done, the screw method of clamping the laminated pieces together works much, much better than trying to use clamps alone. That's my two cents.

I gave you so many heads ups I can't count. I would still rip it out and redo cause "IT'S MY FREAKIN BOAT AND I WANT IT RIGHT AND SAFE."
Your job is to research and make decisions with good information and bad information.
BTW......I've been there done that too!