First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

[mwe-maxxowner]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

I'd also like to add that I cut my stringers based on the ones I cut out and placed them back in the lines on he hull where they had been previously. This made getting my deck height perfect and true difficult. There are just too may variables. When you cut them off the hull it won't be a perfect cut at the hull. Then you try to account for a ?" gap. Then they probably won't get placed back in exactly the correct spot, and the gap may not be perfect, etc. Next time I will use the old stringers as templates, but make them a few inches too tall. Bed in place, then use a string line to mark deck height and cut it. I highly recommend doing yours that way.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

Yep, building stringers taller and scribing to size IS the best way to get them right. I also recommend fabricating a couple of of these to hold them vertical during the installation process...

 

[psykosteel]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

Wow thanks everyone for the great advice and pointers, they are appreciated.

I haven't had any further progress yet between being sick, work, and daughters graduation yesterday. I'm feeling a bit better today and looking at the boat when I took the trash out this morning I started feeling the itch (not from fiberglass though) to get back in it.

Maybe another day and I'll feel up to pulling more foam and planning the motor pull. I saw a couple of peoples ideas for stern drive cradles so that it's not just sitting on the floor and thought that was probably a good idea. My 3 yr old likes to get into my tools and projects.

I've started reading your rebuild thread rickryder, thanks for that. My hull is different more like a trihull, but like all the other great threads I've read, I know I'll find something useful in there for me.


I took a step back and I'm gathering as much info as I can first before going any further. I like a lot of the ideas that have been shared, now I just need to decide on which way to go and do it.

Thanks for the tip on the stringers MWE and WOG. I'll make a template first if I decide to to cut it all out and start over and that jig for lining them up is a great tip WOG.

Thanks for the link GT, good reading there. I have so many multiple threads I'm reading at once it will take me a week to digest all of this info.

Yeah jigngrub I've seen exactly what you said about foam voids with blind pouring in my boat. It had a few big voids all the way to the bottom of the hull and that was from factory. Not that factory always means best work, just good enough to get it out the door. Between the info you have shared and others I think that the false deck method will probably be best. I'm also thinking instead of cutting out the channels on top to do something similar to what MWE is doing with the ropes, but on the top with solid pvc pipe so that it can be broken down and pulled out easier. It would have channels under at the hull and right below the deck all leading to the bilge. That should make this thing solid for more years than I plan on having it lol.

The next order of business is to pull the stern drive and motor. I've already started looking in the motor forum for that info and found some great posts there.

I am pretty sure I will decap the stringers and use Seacast to repair them. This seems like the easiest route and less chance of having an error with deck height etc... and less work in rebuilding the stringers in the long run. It's still a bit up in the air though.

I am thinking of nida-core for the deck. That way there is no chance of rot in the stringers and or in the deck in the future, and as long as I don't put a hole in the hull it should last for years and years. Heck, even if I put a hole in the hull, I've read enough info on how to repair that too.

Hope everyone is having a great day.

 

[psykosteel]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

I've seen it posted on other threads that newer boats don't use plywood for stringers, decks, bulkheads, etc... so what do they use then? Some type of composite like the nida boards?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

Alot of them are using preformed molded All Fiberglass or composite stringer systems.

 

[psykosteel]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

Hmmm okay, thanks WOG.

 

[psykosteel]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

It looks like composites are the way to go and that nida-core is starting to sound better and better for the deck.

 

[psykosteel]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

Yep, RR did his Glass Boat with Sheet foam and did one of the best job's I've seen here on the forum. Packed every Nook and Cranny with the stuff, On Edge, and at a height that would support his deck just like the Poured in Foam. Excellent job, (RR, Don't go gettin the BIG HEAD now!!!)

Hey Wood thanks for pointing me here, I've just hit the page where he did this and saw the pics. I have to agree that this is an A+ job and innovative idea. It would allow more room to design drainage... heck standing it on end like that would allow drainage, I think?

Anyhow still researching this idea as I have stringers, bulkies, blah blah... as structural components under my deck so the foam isn't structural like I first though that it was.

Again I appreciate all the help and points Gentlemen. One day I will have a real boat and a story like y'alls to boot!

 

[rickryder]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

When you stand the foam boards on edge it leaves triangular voids along the hull to allow water to pass through to the limber holes and into the bilge

 

[psykosteel]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

When you stand the foam boards on edge it leaves triangular voids along the hull to allow water to pass through to the limber holes and into the bilge

Limber holes??? New term to me and not sure if my boat has any, but I could be wrong.

Thank you for confirming it. The only thing is that my hull is much different than yours. I could get away with it in the center section, but not at the sides of the hull where it is sometimes only 1/2 to 1/4 deep and kind of W shape with rounded peak in the middle. It's more like a trihull boat.



I guess it could work, but would be a lot more fittment to squeeze it in there.

 

[psykosteel]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

It still amazes me after having the deck off for a few weeks now that when I pull chunks of foam water comes pouring out sometimes.



I bet it will go a lot faster when all the waterlogged foam has been removed.

I'm also starting to think my boat was only worked on on Fridays right before shift end because the of the quality of workmanship. I know it was 1985, but really this is good enough for Four Winns standards?

 

[mwe-maxxowner]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

Don't be afraid of pourable foam. I've read several times, the foam is not a cause of the problem, but a victim! Provide drainage the best you can, and take good care of her!

It also seems the newer foam is different from what I removed from my boat. Hopefully even more water resistant!

 

[GT1000000]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

Limber holes???

Most often refers to any type of opening, passage, hole or orifice, usually at the lowest points on any substructure of a boat to allow water a way to get to the bilge...

In this picture you can see one that is located at the very back and bottom of one of my stringers..

 

[psykosteel]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

Thanks for the pic GT, it never had any of those that I've found.

 

[psykosteel]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

Don't be afraid of pourable foam. I've read several times, the foam is not a cause of the problem, but a victim! Provide drainage the best you can, and take good care of her!

I'm afraid MWE, very afraid of the pourable foam... lol. Nah really it seems like less hassle to squeeze in the blue stuff and then shape it. Not sure if it's cost effective though, I've heard that the pourable is expensive.

I did start reading an oops thread and he had an idea about bagging it then pouring. I'm still trying to get a picture in my head on this method.

I'm more of a visual person, once I picture it I can do it. Blueprint reading and machining parts was easy for me, I could look at a print and imagine a 3d image and spin it around as I planned out the job. The engineer and shop owner loved handing me off the more complicated jobs.

Anyhow, I foresee more reading, more reading, and even more reading in my future. Then I'll decide what to do.

 

[rickryder]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

Now I'm starting to see the configuration of your hull as your pulling up the deck. I would stand up the boards where you can and lay flat in other places or just go with the 2 part and pour it.....up to you

Limber holes..... Holes drilled through a stringer and or bulkhead to allow water to pass freely to the bilge and pumped out. I used some 1" pvc pipe cut into short pieces....drilled holes through my stringers and bulks just big enough for the pipe to fit and sealed them in with 3M 5200 marine sealant.




To answer your question about Four Winns glassing...... Yep mine was built like that too.... I guess they don't care about what you can't see....:facepalm:

 

[rickryder]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

LOL man GT you sure do type fast buddy! :laugh:

 

[rickryder]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

A few questions that I haven't seen come up is do you have your boat on a cradle or on a trailer? If its a trailer bunk or roller? Will you be pulling the cap off the boat to access under the bow area? The hull needs to be properly held in place before you start removing all of the structural support to prevent sagging or flexing of the hull.

 

[mwe-maxxowner]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

I think it was about 120$ for the foam I bought to do my boat, and it figures to be a little more than I'll need. Jigngrub figured it up for me, and I had calculated waaaay over what it will actually take. Basically, oops was saying lay down pipes in the network you see fit for drainage to and through your limber holes, then lay a layer of plastic over it all. Pour the foam, it molds to the bottom of the hull, and the stringers, and over the pipes. But you can lift it out since it was poured in the plastic, it isn't adhered to anything. Remove the pipes, and put the foam back down between the stringers, and it has the channels molded in now for the pipes. If water works its way through the foam, though, to the bottom, now it sits in the plastic .

 

[psykosteel]

Re: First resto project boat, question about foaming and draining.

Yep I read (I think it was your thread MWE) about using pvc pipe and then sealing them in with the 3M 5200. That sounds fine to me, better than the none it had!

Glad it wasn't only my Four Winns that was glassed like end of shift Friday. I foresee a lot of grinding in my future!

A few questions that I haven't seen come up is do you have your boat on a cradle or on a trailer? If its a trailer bunk or roller? Will you be pulling the cap off the boat to access under the bow area? The hull needs to be properly held in place before you start removing all of the structural support to prevent sagging or flexing of the hull.

Currently it's on a roller trailer RR and I haven't ripped up the whole deck, there is still some decking about the motor and about 1 to 2 inches all around and some more in the front due to the odd shape. I really don't want to do a cap off and woodonglass said that's pretty standard for an I/O setup to leave the cap on. I don't forsee any issues with this and wouldn't it add a bit of stability?

I'm considering a cradle, but not quite sure how to get it off of the trailer and onto the cradle. I started reading oops' massive thread and got lost there for a few days. There are a few links I've seen, but haven't really looked into it further.