Floor experts - installation question

[Craig W]

Hi all, another question here -this time regarding floor installation. I've read in a couple situations the search has turned up here that when putting the floor down, it is common to epoxy putty the top of the stringers then screw down the floor panels. The putty will help to seal the screws and provide sealing and extra bonding between the stringers and the floor.<br /><br />Now, this may be a stupid question, but I have to ask. Has it been done, what are your thoughts if the floor was just epoxy puttied down to the stringers without screwing? are the screws required to pull the floor down to the stringers prior to the epoxy curing? I'd REALLY like to avoid any breach of the floor into solid/sealed stringers if possible. As with most of the rest of you, I want to do it properly with the best posibilities for longevitiy of the repair. My floor will be fully encapsulated ply into encapsulated ply stringers. My father in-laws will be using all FRP.<br /><br />Please, any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated. TIA.

 

[CCrew]

Re: Floor experts - installation question

Craig, <br />I've wondered the same questiion. I'm however leaning toward an epoxy glue rather than mixing my own putty. I bought some of the epoxy glue US Composites sells and tested it out, and let me tell you, that stuff's incredible! It's about the consistency of vaseline when mixed. Just for giggles I glued 2 pieces of 4x4 together with it, and it took whacks with a sledgehammer to break it, and then it took wood with it. I can't see how that wouldn't work with the floor perimeter glassed in well, but I'll defer to those more expert than me to give a more definitive answer..<br /><br />Oh, and by the way.. two boats apart at the same time... Are you nuts?? <br /><br />Roger

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Floor experts - installation question

Craig, It seems if you pre-drilled the screw holes thru your floor boards, applied the epoxy putty to the top of the stringers, laid the floor on with putty oozing up thru the holes, then rammed your screws home, then wiped up the excess, you would have an absolute total seal. Hmmm?<br /><br />What kind of a business did your father-in-law find his FRP at? and why aren't you using it as well?

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Floor experts - installation question

If you ever want to remove the screw coat it with ‘wax’ before glassing in.<br /><br />If you have not already got your hands on a copy, go get "Fiberglass Boat Repair & Maintenance" by WestSystem available just about any marina where their product is sold. It is an inexpensive but excellent source for basic epoxy how-to. Retails right around $3.25. For those that can read, it is condensed, easy reading. For the rest of us, it has lots of diagrams.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Floor experts - installation question

a 'vaseline' consistency is not desireable.. especially for encapsulation.. it's to thick to penetrate deep.. <br /><br />CRIAG,, you must have read apost of mine.. what i wrote is the best way... any anythin' less is compromising the system.. an if you read thoughly,,, screws wont/can't 'breach the seal'... <br /><br />but with that bein' said....<br /><br />epoxy is supposed to be as good as screws.. <br /><br />just make sure you do the 'peanut butter & honey trick'....<br /><br />it won't fail ya...

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Floor experts - installation question

If the flooring does not sit completely flat on all areas, you can build up with epoxy to fill any voids between the stringers and flooring. After curing:<br /><br />1- Set new flooring in place on stringers.<br />2- Pre-drill screw holes through flooring and stringers together.<br />3- Remove flooring.<br />4- Drill screw-head counter sink in flooring.<br />5- Re-drill oversize screw holes in stringer.<br />6- Fill holes in stinger with epoxy.<br />7- Replace flooring with waxed screws in place. Let cure. <br /><br />This leaves the stringers encapsulated, the screws are set in epoxy only.<br /><br />At step 4 you can drill oversize screw holes in the flooring and epoxy waxed screws in place. Let cure. Proceed with step 5. This would leave the flooring encapsulated, also.<br /><br />Note: oversize holes to be filled with epoxy should be like little caves…bigger on the inside. <br /><br />After installing the floor, fill the ss screw heads with a flexible caulking (facilitates any screw removal), smooth over.

 

[Craig W]

Re: Floor experts - installation question

thanks for the replies guys. It's given me enough to contemplate for a bit <br /><br />Boomyal: my father in-law picked up the FRP from a friend of a friend who had some "lying around" after building a trailer or something like that. We asked for it before I had the chance of really getting into my boat and determining the extent of what I'd need to repair (we already knew how bad his boat was -ie, completely gutted, everything new execpt the hull). So we have enough for his. My FIL's boat is a bigger, less 'speed' oriented runabout. My boat is smaller, lighter, and more of a ski type runabout. I still think that decently sealed and encapsulated ply will end up lighter than FRP for the same application and I'm not too worried about using it in mine. It really is amazing to see the difference "proper" construction techniques made to how each boat has weathered the years.<br /><br />18rabbit: I'm going to be using the WestSystem epoxies on both boats, and having finished most of the "Fiberglass Boat Repair Manual" I was also planning on purchasing and reading the one you mentioned published by the WestSystem. Can never have too much information and thanks for the procedure.<br /><br />crab bait: I'm pretty sure that I have read a few of your posts.. I have to dig back. I think in trying to be brief I may have mislead my overall intensions. On my boat, I'm planning on utilizing ply and fully encapsulating it on installation and letting it cure. I was then planning on using thick epoxy -peanut butter consistency on top of the stringers prior to putting the fully encapsulated floor down and glassing the top. The reason I was wanting to stay away from scews is the damage it has caused on my boat to the stringers. All the wood had been "resined" and it is apparant that rot has only begun where moisture had entered thru the screws.. however, holes weren't pre-drilled and sealed with epoxy or resin.<br /><br />It now looks like I will be re-doing ALL the stringers and floor on mine too... probably because I'm becoming psychodic discovered just this morning that all 4 stringers have split all the way thru all in a section across the boat. For some lucky reason, there is no damage I can identify on the hull -either in the glassing from inside or gelcoat on the exterior.<br /><br />got ALOT of work ahead with both boats. I've got plenty of pics to post and will keep all of you updated as I go. Thanks again for ALL the help you've been providing. It's greatly appreciated

 

[crab bait]

Re: Floor experts - installation question

we'er here..<br /><br />don't forget the 'honey' ... major importance...just a thin poured line..all the way along the stringer tops...

 

[BillP]

Re: Floor experts - installation question

Yes, using only epoxy to secure the deck down will work fine. Virtually all production boat innerliners/decks are just glued to the stringers and they don't come apart...this includes the high end semi custom wave jumping ocean rigs. My only issue with this is making sure the epoxy stays thick and won't run off the top of the stringers. When you glass the tops of stringers it makes an irregular surface for the ply to sit on. Most thickened epoxies thin out and can "drain" a tad just before they kick. Not a big problem but a real one.<br /><br />I personally use both epoxy thickened to a buttery consistancy and screws for two reasons. One reason is to make up for any human errors and the biggest reason is to pull the deck down to keep it from moving while I am working on it. I pilot drill, countersink deep and test fit all the panels and screws before the epoxy goes on. All the stringer pilot holes get filled with epoxy before the screws are done and then the countersinks are filled. If for some reason the epoxy lets go(highly unlikely)it still has a mechanical bond. I overbuild because it makes me feel good too.