floor glassing question

[KCKracker]

Re: floor glassing question

ya ya brother i know conf: stringers are long since done sorry I was tired, i didnt word things in the right order lmao, man i was dead beat so its probably good i had a plywood issue and had to stop. I was supposed to get arauco plywood and ended up getting CDX, i started to use it then decided hell no, ya i was not happy with that junk so i took it all back today and got what i wanted, gorgeous smooth plywood .

anyways here is an update, and if i messed this up too wording, well its 2:41 am and i been sniffin resin so i have a good excuse :mrgreen:

awful perty and thats just the underside, i was so sticky and messy but got Miss Rae to take these for me, still wet and should be dry by morning and get the other 2 sheets done underneath, and dry, and in, then its filleting time but ill probably be beat as crap by then conf:
should have posted last night...

 

[sevanseriesta]

Re: floor glassing question

I dont want to burst your bubble, but hopefully you did not bed the stringers in 5200 and then immediately glass them in cause that will be bad. 5200 takes at minimum 3 days to dry. you may wait till some others chime in, I used PB to put mine in just so I didn't have to wait.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: floor glassing question

Yeah, 5200 is kinda expensive and WAY overkill to be bedding stringers with. I HOPE that the plywood in the pics is the underside of the deck. I also hope that you put hardener in the resin. I did not see any CSM mat in the pics only cloth. Cloth will not bond to plywood very well with out an initial layer of CSM mat. You would, IMHO, do well to slow down and study a bit on the proper methods of working with fiberglass resin and cloth. The first link in my signature below has some drawings and good info on all of this. I'd hate to see you do all this work only to have it all fail to to improper application.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: floor glassing question

If it was fast cure 5200, you might be OK, but I'd be concerned. If it's regular 5200, that can take a week or more to cure, depending on temp and humidity. If the 5200 is sealed under glass, who knows how long it might take to cure, or if it will cure to full strength.

I've read several threads where folks used other adhesives (e.g., PL construction adhesive) and didn't wait for it to fully cure before glassing it in. They had some serious delamination issues.

As for tabbing the deck, I tabbed mine before I poured foam. That foam is a pain to remove once it' in, and I am glad I didn't to go around the perimeter of the deck and cut away foam that oozed out. If you cut plenty of pour holes and holes for excess foam to ooze out, you should be fine. Replacing the wood pucks and glassing them in isn't hard at all.

Hope all is well... you're really motivated to get this done, and that's half the battle!

Good luck,
Jim

 

[KCKracker]

Re: floor glassing question

yes i used the VERY expensive fast cure 5200, tube said few hours it got near 2 days so it oughta be fine or 3,m is paying for my next deck because the tube guarantees fast cure.
yes thats the UNDER side of the deck
yes thats got matt and resin on it,
yes there is only one coat on the bottom side, i dont plan on keeping this forever i think one coat will be just fine
CSM is going on the top side for sure.
deck is getting screwed in today
no i have not foamed yet, i planned to pour for after its filleted and tabbed in and cured.

how long do i need to wait to pour foam after its tabbed in?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: floor glassing question

36 hours IMO. The material shown in the pictures was not CSM, that was what appeared to be the cloth thats sold at the big box stores in a bag based on the folds and wrinkles in it. If in fact it is the light weight cloth and a layer of CSM was not applied prior to laying the cloth, then in all likely hood it will eventually delaminate from the deck. On the top side, I would highly recommend using 2 layers of CSM and then a layer of that cloth if you want the deck to last for any period of time and make sure it goes down smoothly with out wrinkles or bubbles. If not water will get in and destroy your work.

 

[KCKracker]

Re: floor glassing question

your right, i have now said 3 times there was NOT CSM on it yet, i have said 3x there was matte on the bottom side because thats all im doing on the bottom side. am i clear now?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: floor glassing question

Let's start over. I think you're getting upset and that is not my intention. I'm not busting your chops, I'm just trying to help you understand the correct way to install fiberglass so your efforts don't fail. I think we have a terminology problem here.
What you are calling mat in the picture is not mat, it is cloth. CSM is Chopped Strand Mat. It looks like this...

Fiberglass Cloth looks like this...

A layer of Chopped Strand mat (CSM) must be installed prior to installing the fiberglass cloth which it appears you did not do. That is all I am trying to say. The bottom of the deck only needs to have CSM on it and not the cloth. The picture clearly shows Cloth being applied and did not show or indicate any mat so that's why I asked the question. Cloth needs the fibers in the mat to assist it with holding it in place. I hope this makes sense. Again, it think it's a terminology issue and hopefully this will clear it up.

All of this information is in the first link in my signature.

 

[KCKracker]

Re: floor glassing question

ahhhh ok i thought they were called matte and CSM, anyways its all good i only wanted to waterproof the underside, many on here told me to just epoxy the bottom but i wanted some kind of glass.

rememeber this is ULTRA budget resto, its the best i can do, the top will get LOTS of matt so its all good, sorry i didnt understand.

 

[mwe-maxxowner]

Re: floor glassing question

rememeber this is ULTRA budget resto,

No such thing!

Epoxy resin alone can be used for waterproofing, but POLYESTER resin, which I think you have xannont be used without fiberglass to accompany it. It will peel and chip off in time, as I understand it. Epoxy resin could be used by itself, but not polyester.

A

 

[KCKracker]

Re: floor glassing question

ok so update: having the wrong stuff on there bothered me so i trashed those pieces and made new ones with the bottom done in matt. last night i went to put them in and start screwing them down and found a bad piece of plywood under the rear 12" of my front console, great, right where i cannot access it. its the front most decking and i can fillet and tabs the sides so-so but the console is sagging and pushing down so hard i could hardly get my sample piece in there to see if it fits :blue: i got matt on that last night, and for added strength so it doesnt sag like the original one did, i think im going to glass a 2x4 to the bottom of it, ought to be way stronger than original at the very least

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: floor glassing question

Not sure I understand what you mean. Got any pics?

 

[KCKracker]

Re: floor glassing question

here is a pic . this is the rear of my console and the beginning of the walk through to the open bow. 14" under this walk thru is where the deck ends. it was rotten soft so i cut it out (basically yanked it out).

i used that for a pattern to cut a new one, but when i got the new one shoved in place, i had to lift the console because it was pushing down so hard on it, there is alot of downward pressure on the new piece im guessing from years of the old one allowing the console to sag.

 

[KCKracker]

Re: floor glassing question

actually the yellow line shows a exact pattern for the piece i removed. i ends just in front of the side boxes and 14" under the walk thru

 

[KCKracker]

Re: floor glassing question

ideas?

 

[mwe-maxxowner]

Re: floor glassing question

I am no expert, and am learning myself, but I think that thing needs a cap off, full deck and maybe stringers resto. Or at least a modification of the cap so you can get to the entire deck and sub floor structure.

 

[KCKracker]

Re: floor glassing question

cap off is in no way an option. this piece is the very front 14" of the deck, theres nothing past that so no reason to pull the cap. stringers have already been done, where this ends at the yellow line, so do the stringers.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: floor glassing question

Since this is your deck (floor) thread, let's put this here:

so after i fillet the deck to the hull, and start tabbing, so i have to use 1708 biax? i do not have any and have not been able to find anyone near me that has it.

Since you are in Black Diamond, WA, CompositeOne has several west coast locations:

Arlington, Washington 19105 63rd Ave. NE Arlington, WA 98223-8729 800-283-0809		Salt Lake City, Utah 2222 N Redwood Road Salt Lake City, UT 84116 800-444-0156
Kelowna, British Columbia #3, 801 Dalton Road. Kelowna, British Columbia Canada V1X 2P9 800-663-0449		Santa Fe Springs, California 11917 Altamar Pl. Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670-2543 800-237-0087
Langley, British Columbia #100, 10125-199B St. Langley, British Columbia Canada V1M 3W9 800-663-0449		Vancouver, Washington 12301 NE 56th St. Vancouver, WA 98682 800-255-6006
Phoenix, Arizona 2701 W Virginia Ave. Phoenix, AZ 85009-1701 800-522-2599		West Sacramento, California 3621 Seaport Blvd. West Sacramento, CA 95691-3437 800-654-5223

They can be tough to deal w/ depending on who you talk to when you call. I think you have to fill out a customer sheet (paper only, last I remember) and 'apply' to become a customer. But they will have 1708 biax.

Look thru US Composite's site. It will help you understand the products your using.

That close to Lake Sawyer, Puget Sound & Seattle, you shouldn't have any problem finding 1708. Pacific Fiberglass is in Seattle, WA

Or you could try a few places on this list, click the yellow pages link, it's got business names, #'s & addresses, Pacific Fiberglass is from that list.

There is likely at least 1 boat repair shop 'near' you that will sell you 1708 at a retail price off their wholesale rolls. You may need to dig to find it. But it may be cheaper to buy & you won't have to pay for shipping. Being able to swing by & buy a couple yards of 1708 when you run a tad short is a HUGE advantage too.

 

[KCKracker]

Re: floor glassing question

so i have two questions, is "PB" made by cutting strips or chopping csm up into shredded pieces? also do i have to tab the deck to the hull with biax or can it be tabbed with csm? id rather just not wait and track it down, i would rather just get it done with what i have

 

[ondarvr]

Re: floor glassing question

PB is just a generic term for any kind of putty you want to mix up, the recipe is up to you.

Cabosil will thicken it and stop it from sagging. Without cabosil the putty will sag.

Milled fibers will give it slightly more strength and the more you add the lumpier it will be.

Cut up glass is like longer milled fibers, and being longer make the putty harder to work with.

Micro balloons make it lighter and easier to sand.