Force 150 no high end revs

[beckat]

I've got a 89 F5 Force 150hp on an Arriva 2001 ski/runabout.<br /> I had the thre carbs cleaned and decarbed last year for poor idling and rough running.<br /> That seems to be corrected. While the shop was at it they added a new primer bulb<br /> and installed an inline filter to capture the debris that was showing up in a gas sample.<br /> I took it out anticipating a good day on the lake, but the motor has no power.<br /> The RPMs get to about 3000 and I can barrly get it to 20 MPH. It use to get to 4-4.5K and 35-40 MPH.<br /> New plugs and gas. same prop 21 pitch cupped. The fuel pump has never been serviced, that might be the next thing.<br /> I really have to stand on the throttle to get it to 3K rpm. It seems like it wants to go higher but I'm running out of throttle.

 

[nstevens]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Had a similar problem with my Evinrude. Turned out to be the fuel pump diaphram which had split. The engine would rev fine in the tank but not when on the boat under load as it couldn't get enough fuel through. Cheap fix at less than £1.

 

[beckat]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Thanks for the insight. Running out to get the fuel pump kit, now.

 

[Deerdog]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Hey F5,<br />I have pretty much the same boat - it is a 19 ft Arriva with the 150 F5 on it. I have had it since 91. We really love the boat design - the horshoe seats around the rear end. It still looks like new<br /><br />Fuel pump diaphram may be the problem as I had a similar case back a few years ago.<br /><br />What intrested me was the performance of the motor before the problems. With a 21 prop you should be getting more RPM's than that. I run a 21 on mine and can get 5000 to 5300 easy. About a month ago they dropped due to a carb problem - had to rebuild them. My top end with that setup was about 48 to 50 although I did get it up to 53 once (by GPS)with a 23 pitch prop. You may want to do a compression check. I may be out in left field here but you may have a cylinder/cylinders going away.<br /><br />In 1994 I had to rebuild mine. The indicators were just like you stated. A big drop in RPM/top end and overall power. It was bogging bad and wouldnt get over 25 mph. After the rebuild the thing ran super. Intrestingly enough these indicators showed up about two months after a service/tune up.<br /><br />Anyway, I am no expert but just want to pass on what happened to me when I had similar problems years back.

 

[beckat]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Deerdog,<br />I'm glad you responded. Reading through the other Force problem posts, I was intriqued with you and your exact boat and motor. I and the family love the boat and the layout. We love to head for the Colorado River and the associated lakes. we're hating life right now because of the problems I'm trying to fix.<br /><br />I was trying not to over exagerate the capabilities of the 150 and the Arriva. I too can get it in the 5K range (with me and another passenger) and the 40-45MPH is by the speedo reading only. I haven't been able to convince the financial planner (da wife) to allow the purchase of a GPS toy, yet.<br /><br />If the new pump doesn't do it, I doubt I'll do the complete rebuild as you performed. I'll leave that up to a pro.<br /><br />Glad you responded.

 

[whitehorsemarine]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Then again, never take a "carb rebuild" for granted and assume the job was done right. Most marine shops throw the carbs to shop lackey and have him clean them up and install the parts from the rebuild kits (if rebuild kits were even used.).

 

[Deerdog]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

F5,<br />The rebuild isnt that bad - especially when you start looking at new motors. My financial manager also says I have to make this one work b/c we arent getting a new motor anytime soon. I had mine done by a pro also. My top ends were also with me in the boat (nothing else and freshly waxed) and low fuel. It will easily cruise in the low 40's loaded up though.<br /><br />I know Force takes alot of crap but if well maintained (including frequent decarbing and running quickleen once per month - it is what I do anyway)they will hold up okay. I havent had anymore problems that what I have seen from other makes. I have two friends who also have 150 forces and they have held up okay - one of them dosnt do squat to his other than quickleen every now and then. One positive about the old Force is that it is fairly easy to work on. Routine maintenance is easy. The fuel pump filter/screen will take 10 minutes - remember you have two pumps.<br /><br />As I said eariler I had to rebuild the carbs. The top one was leaking fuel due to what I think was a stuck float. It acted as if a cyliner was down (loos of top end and RPM's). I pulled the plugs and they looked okay except for the top two cylinders were soaked. Compression check was okay. A friend of ours who runs a repair shop confirmed what I was told on this board. Carbs cleaned/rebuilt (I did this one myself). After remounting and adjusting the thing is back to its old self again.<br /><br />Hope yours turns out okay

 

[beckat]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Skye Ferguson<br /> White Horse Marine <br /> Southern California<br /> West Coast #1 Force Specialist<br /> # 714-527-0563<br /><br />Is that the best you can offer as advice as the self proclaimed West Coast #1 Force Specialist?

 

[whitehorsemarine]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Not the best advice I can offer, no. My phone number is posted. He can call me if he wants to. I really don't have to time to sit here for hours answering everyone else's questions when there is only guy here that has a problem. Sorry if that offends you in any way.

 

[beckat]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Deerdog,<br />The latest on the saga.<br />Compression check reveals Cylinders 1-5 = 125, 130, 130, 125, 020.<br />Must be a scored cylinder/ring in #5.<br />Going to see if the carbs are working properly, first.<br /><br />What's the next step?<br />Remove powerhead and have each cylinder re-honed and new rings or go with a rebuilt powerhead.<br /><br />Any advice on what to look out for compared to when you had your's done?

 

[Deerdog]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Ouch, I was afraid of that. One gone and the others kind of low.....but within 10psi of each other.<br /><br />You may be able to get by with honing and new rings but I really dont think so. That #5 is bad. Could have ate a ring which could also mess up the cylinder wall beyond simple honing. Improper carb rebuild/adjustment could have also been a cause - a cylinder could have leaned out. I guess what I am saying is that it would have to be torn apart to really tell which way to go. I would assme you are looking at a pro to do this. Once they get it apart then they can give you a direction (overbore/rebuild versus buying a new head). You could get lucky and it may not be in need of a rebuild (headgasket may be bad causing a loss of compression across the board but mostly in the area where it has blown (#5)). <br /><br />Just curious, what did the plugs look like - especially the one from the low cylinder.<br /><br />If you havent gotten one yet I would recommend you get a manual for the motor. I have a Clymer's and it has come in handy many times. <br /><br />I hate sounding like I am going in many directions with my response but from my experience I would again say it needs to be taken apart to really tell. Im sure there are much smarter folks than I that may be able to further elaborate. <br /><br />Best of luck<br />Deerdog

 

[The Marine Doctor]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Remove the Head and check for a blown head gasket...its quite common for the F5.<br /><br />TMD

 

[beckat]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Deerdog and the Doctor,<br />The 'pro's' are at it as we speak.<br />They are looking at #5 and #1. After opening it up he was supprised to see some scoring on #1 snice it had reasonably good compression readings. So they will possibly over bore and re-ringing it. No comment from the shop about the head gasket condition. I'll ask if they noticed anything. He too mentioned the possibility of an improper set carb. As you may remember for the beginning of these posts, the carbs had been overhauled last year by another shop. The current shop said they were all functioning properly and in good condition.<br /><br />I've always had problems on a cold start, so it has become a common practice of mine to remove and wipe the plugs clean prior to starting. The #5 plug has always been wet and fouled.<br /><br />More to come.<br />Looking forward to the price tag (NOT) and returning to the river with a smooth running machine.

 

[Deerdog]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Scoring on the #1 could be the reason why he mentioned carbs (you had one leaning out leading to the scoring). The wet fouled one could indicate overrich carbs (again back to adjustment) or shot rings. I would guess the later since that was your low cylinder. Sounds like they will be coming to you with a boring/re-ring job. Hopefully everything else is okay (pistons, pins, bearings, etc). Once you get it back it should be like new. Follow in the break in instructions. I ran a double mix for the first 8 hours of operation. Some do it for 10-12 hours but 8 worked for me. Hope you are back on the water soon.

 

[beckat]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Deerdog,<br />Visited the shop this weekend. They had it all apart. The #1 not only had a score in it but the sleeve was cracked also. The #5 was a mess. Looked like the rings were trying to get around the piston.<br />Long story short. Three weeks to get the remanufactured powerhead received and installed. That little job will be in the $3000 range when they are all said and done.<br /><br />I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[Deerdog]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

F5,<br />Im sure you have heard this:<br /><br />BOAT: <br /><br />Break<br />Out<br />Another <br />Thousand<br /><br />Price sounds about right though. The cost of the head and labor. Make sure they give you the compression readings of the new head before you take it back. I know it sucks havingit down in the summer. Mine blew over the 4th of July in 1994 and I got it back about two weeks later. It just sucked with no boat.<br /><br />good luck<br />Deerdog

 

[The Marine Doctor]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Well I certainly hope they find the problem...not just rebuild the engine. As this sounds like it might be a reoccuring problem if they do not.<br /><br />TMD

 

[beckat]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

TMD<br />Thanks for the support.<br />The shop will rebuild the carbs and install a new water pump. Probably required so as not to void the warranty on the remanufactured powerhead.<br /><br />I'm still waiting for the call from the shop to let meknow it's ready to go.

 

[beckat]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Five long months and still no boat. The shop has had one excuse after another. They say they've got block back from being reworked and all the sleeves and pistons and gaskets in house. If I'm lucky I might get it back before the end of the year (but I'm not saying which year...)

 

[roscoe]

Re: Force 150 no high end revs

Bummer, there's no excuse for that. Unfortunately, they are holding your boat hostage so you can't even walk away from the mess.<br /><br />Then you could repower with a nice late model motor for $4000-$5000.