Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

[Bubba1235]

Need some help from the Ford crowd.

Situation, bought a 1995 Chris Craft Concept with a OMC Cobra out drive powered by a 190 H.P. 302 Ford. (2 Barrel Carb.) Engine is fubar and must be replaced.

Now if this were a Chevy I could tell you from memory what would fit in and the gotchas that go with it but I am clueless about Ford engines so any help would be appreciated.

When I look at reman. or replacement engines (Rapido and others) there seems to be a split around mid 80s so am I to assume something changed about that time? As an example I have located a 1978 302 Mecrcruiser engine rated at 188 H.P. for $400 (engine seems to be in great shape and compression is right on spec.) Will this engine swap into my boat?

Going futher, (asking out of ignorance) is this the same as with Chevy where the 5 L. and the 5.7 L. are the same block and can be interchanged without major issues? (Manifolds?) I ask as in my opinion 190 H.P from a 5 L. V-8 seems pretty low and I'd like to see something in say the 225 to 250 HP range.

I guess that in a round about manner I am asking, what will drop into this boat with the least hassle and provide decent HP?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

Ayuh,....

Our main Ford Guy is Haut Medoc,...
As far as I know.....
The 351 Windsor will somewhat Fit with only a few mods.....
And,...
I gotta believe that keeping with the Same Vintage would make it Easier.....

 

[a70eliminator]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

Ford is no different than Chevy when it comes to marine vs automobile swaps, any Ford 302 will work it's the same block, just swap all the marine stuff. dist, carb. starter, alt. intake, ect. also the cam on a marine is a little more like a truck cam low rpm power band.

You could swap out the whole works for the Mercruiser, been done many times.

 

[mcleaves]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

I have a 95 OMC 302, EFI. Being the paranoid soul I am I researched a while back what my options were for replacing this engine if it gives up the ghost. I could most certainly be wrong on this but I THOUGHT one of the issues I came across was a bolt pattern change for the flywheel cover at some point ion the 302 timeline.

Again I could be wrong. It was a while back

M

 

[mcleaves]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

BTW, slightly off topic but '95 was a couple years into the Volvo/OMC joint venture. You sure you don;t have Volvo SX/Cobra mated to that. That is what my setup is. Looks to be OMC but it's actually a Volvo drive.

M

 

[mcleaves]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

Hmmm, I do not know but I have been told that different 302 Fords have different firing orders so I am thinking the distributor may not be a direct swap. Any thoughts?

Let me look in my service manuals.. I don't think for the the years it covers this is true

M

 

[WizeOne]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

Need some help from the Ford crowd.

Situation, bought a 1995 Chris Craft Concept with a OMC Cobra out drive powered by a 190 H.P. 302 Ford. (2 Barrel Carb.) Engine is fubar and must be replaced.

Now if this were a Chevy I could tell you from memory what would fit in and the gotchas that go with it but I am clueless about Ford engines so any help would be appreciated.

When I look at reman. or replacement engines (Rapido and others) there seems to be a split around mid 80s so am I to assume something changed about that time? As an example I have located a 1978 302 Mecrcruiser engine rated at 188 H.P. for $400 (engine seems to be in great shape and compression is right on spec.) Will this engine swap into my boat?

Going futher, (asking out of ignorance) is this the same as with Chevy where the 5 L. and the 5.7 L. are the same block and can be interchanged without major issues? (Manifolds?) I ask as in my opinion 190 H.P from a 5 L. V-8 seems pretty low and I'd like to see something in say the 225 to 250 HP range.

I guess that in a round about manner I am asking, what will drop into this boat with the least hassle and provide decent HP?

The OMC 190 and the Merc 188 are virtually the same engines except for the exhaust manis, all the cooling plumbing and the carb. Even those would all be interchangeable between engines. Otherwise same cams, compression, etc.

The 351w has a two inch higher deck height and as a result a 2" wider intake mani and a longer distributor shaft. As such, it sits about 2" higher and weighs about 50 lbs more. All exhaust manis and plumbing hardware are interchangable.

To get to your desired 225+ hp 302 (which is nice because it is lighter) you'd need to go to a 9:1 compression, roller cam, 4 bbl carbed w/ slightly hotter (within marine limits) cam.

 

[ringmaster]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

im not sure on marine engines but i do know for a fact that fords did use 2 different firing orders. the standerd one was used in the trucks and the other firing order was used in the mustangs called the 5.0 h.o. it used the 351 firing order. the reason for that was it released some stress on the rod and main bearings. it didnt wear them out as fast. now you can put a 351 cam in a 302 block with no problems but if you go roller then you have to change the gear on the distributer to a steel one if you dont then the roller cam will eat the brass gear up quick. also you can put the 351 heads on a 302 block to get more horse power out of it. the only difference between the 302 and 351 block is the 351 is wider other then that the heads manifolds and flywheel cover are the same. like i said before i dont know exactly what the marine changes are but im sure they are pretty close to the automotive engines. if im wrong about something im sure someone will be along to correct me. i just know from builing alot of 302's and 351's since im strictly a ford nut.

 

[mcleaves]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

Ahhh. I have heard in the past rumblings about the mustang engines being different. You've shed some light on why.

I guess it's safe to say that the firing order on all OTHER 302's should be the same right? Again my marine 302 service manuals only show one.

Also your comment clears up the flywheel cover issue I think

-M

 

[ringmaster]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

since i have a 233 in my 24ft sea ray i would go 351 but its a bigger boat. you will have to look at the weight and size of your boat. my cousin has a 19ft sea ray with a 195 (305) but when doing some research we found out it was offered with the 350. i love my 351's they have more torque then the 302 also the 351 would put you in the power range you want to be and shouldnt hurt you being heavier then the 302. all in all when it comes down to it yes i would go with the 351 cause you will get more bang for the buck.

 

[ringmaster]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

your right it is under 100lbs.there is only 65lbs difference between the 302 and 351. you can use the same manifolds as long as there is enough room in the engine bay. that would be your only concern. good luck hope everything works out.

 

[Dakota47]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

a truck 351 Winsor would work

 

[ringmaster]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

big block now your talken. lol more power

 

[1976 Slickcraft]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

My 302 makes the power your looking for, however a 351 would do it at a lot lower RPM. Just depends what you want to do with it. If your pulling skiers or a tube you will like the torque of the 351. If you want a screamer you can not beat a well balanced 302.
As said before your exhaust manifolds will work with a 351. You will however need longer rubber exhaust hoses because of the 351`s higher deck height.
Jesse

 

[WizeOne]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

351w's are not 'big block' engines. They are still SBF's. A 351 cleveland is a big block motor but not interchangable with the SBF family. (221, 289, 302, 5.0, 351w)

As for the firing order, a distributer does not give a hoot as to which order it fires the cylinders. It is the camshaft that makes the difference. OMC 190's and Merc 188's used a hotter cam that required the 351w firing order. Later Ford roller cam motors also used the 351w firing order.

If you should happen to choose a later roller cam 302/5.0, you would have to get a new harmonic balancer and flywheel as they are 50 oz balance motors whereas what you have is a 28oz balance motor.

Unfortunately the balancers and flywheels that would come with the roller cam motors will not work with your outdrive or your front pulley set up.

Fortunately swapping later roller cam motors into early cars is so prevelant that the aftermarket makes 50 oz flywheels and balancers that conform to early requirements.

 

[1976 Slickcraft]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

Ford never called any of their engines "small block" or "big block", those terms relate to GM engines only.
221, 289, 302, and 351W are all Windsors
351 Cleveland, 351 Modified, and 400 are all 335 series engines.
429, and 460 are 385 series.
Jesse

 

[mcleaves]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

... also you can put the 351 heads on a 302 block to get more horse power out of it.

So how much are we talking in HP gain for this, and can you simply do this swap on an EFI? 302?

Something tells me the computer will be pissed off

M

 

[ringmaster]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

computers cant tell there is a different heads on there. 351 heads will up the compression without doing work to the bottom end. look at the higher horsepower 302's they have 351 heads on them. i have a friend that is a marine mechanic he helps me alot when i need it we talk alot about motors cause he just built a 40ft offshore with twin engins and twin super chargers on it so im pretty sure he knows what he is talking about.

 

[1976 Slickcraft]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

You have to be careful when putting 351 heads on a 302.
1977 and up 351 heads will give no advantage as their identical to 302 heads.

1969 to 1970, part number prefix C9 are the best, valve sizes are 1.84 Intake and 1.54 exhaust. Combustion chamber is 58cc.

1975 to 1977, prefix D5 are next best, same valves as above but bigger chambers at 60cc

1977 and up are same as 302 1.78 Intake, 1.46 Exhaust and 68cc chambers.

Another note, 69-76 heads had pressed in rocker studs, 77 and up use pedstal mount rockers.

Jesse

 

[1976 Slickcraft]

Re: Ford 302 marine engine information HELP

Swapping early 351 heads to a 302 will give you approx 1 full point in compression ratio. Now you have to control detonation, maybe just running high test will be good enough, maybe not. If your engine is EFI the knock sensor will pick up the detonation and retard timing to the point that your engine may make less power than before the head swap.
Jesse