FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

[PumaBmx]

A friend of the family moved away and does not want to drag his 16ft Bayliner with him. He offered to me, so I took it thinking it couldnt be too far from being seaworthy . I might have went out to the lake with him in that boat back in 1992-1999 maybe 10-15 times. It did run great and everything was operational back then. It has not run since 2000.
This boat is a 16ft 1985 Bayliner Capri and has a 85hp Chrysler Force motor. The boat was garage kept since 2000 and now sits in my backyard. I took the boat to a local marine shop to have it checked out. They called me in to tell me everything they found wrong and what it would need.
They said they would not try to start it because the carbs were all gummed up.
They said it would definetly need a carb overhaul, a new waterpump, and a new starter. It did register all 80s across all cylinders.
Motor repair estimate was $900
However, they said the floor was rotten and needed to be replaced. They also said, they suspected that the rot had travelled all the way to the transom and rear of the boat. Since I know nothing about boats, I asked how could he be sure. So he started yanking on the motor and told me there was too much flex in the transom. He said there should no flex at all
Transom / Floor repair estimate $1500
I will empasize, I know nothing about boats and being on a tight budget...wont be spending a whole lot on this boat or even a used boat for that matter.
My questions are:
Do I keep this boat and attempt a transom repair and get the motor running ?
Do I get the motor running and find a good hull to swap out? Aluminum ?
Do I sell it or even donate it to charity for a tax break and wash my hands of it ?

Thanks in advance !

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

First off, 2400 is too much to put into that boat. Bayliner/Force was an entry level boat and you still can find running ones for around 2000.

Now, the engine. Force is a simple engine and if you are at all mechanically inclined you can do the repairs yourself. Carbs are easy to remove and clean, Starters are available at auctions--new ones cost about 275. But before you replace the starter, check to make sure there is not some other problem. Water pump impeller is easy to replace and doesn't cost much. All these things are covered in engine repair threads here. Read 'em! You can save a lot of money. That engine most likely could be running for a few hundred bucks at most, Provided the basic block is good, which seems to be the case. 80 psi seems a little low, but was it checked wet? Makes a difference.

The boat: floor repair is not too difficult, just messy and frustrating as is transom repair. Again there are many posts on this website for hull repair. The question is : do you want to put in the time?

I would get the engine running and see how well it performs. See how bad the floor and transom is during use, then decide if you like the boat enough to repair it and keep it or of you want to put the engine on another hull. Once you get the engine running you could probably get your money out of it if you decide to sell it.

 

[steelespike]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

Franks advice is sound for anyone handy with tools.
Unfortunately it sounds like you may have limited expierence fixing motors or boats.While the boat is surely repairable it will be a major job.Certainly not likely
a good project for a first time.If you want to think about the motor see if there is a service manual at the library.
There may be one that covers many brands.Read up and see if it makes any sense at all for you.The basic procedures on the Force are similar to most outboards back to the 20s and 30s just a little more sofisticated.
The motor has 3 carbs but the repair on each is basically the same.You might look over the starter assembly to see if you might be able to replace it.
If it isn't burried too far into the motor it could be a easy replacement.
Good luck whatever you do.

 

[PumaBmx]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

First off, thanks for the quick informative replys.
Im not afraid to get dirty and do the motor work. I think I could manage it. In fact, last week I went ahead and purchased the Clymer repair manual for the Force engines. The book looks very easy to comprehend.
I just called the store that I took it to and asked the "wet" question about compression....he did not understand what I was asking....nor did I for that matter ! Haha !
Im willing to put a few hundred dollars into the motor, considering the prices of newer, running 85hp engines for sale.

Steelespike: the starter is mounted in a very accessible location. Do you mean to rebuild the starter or replace completely ?

Frank: you mention to "see how bad the floor and transom are during use" , what would I be looking for ? Would it be dangerous to take it out ? Could the transom fail and flood the boat ? When the boat was at the shop the technician did pull up some of the floor and show me the rot. The floor pretty much crumbled apart. The transom and fiberglass work does NOT sound like something I wanna tackle.

The paperwork given to me by the Marine shop states:

SPARK = good
LOWER UNIT= good
COMPRESSION = 80 80 80

 

[JB]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

Donate it. Attempting to repair it would be a chore if you are not a marinehead and when fully fixed it would still be the Yugo of boats.

 

[steelespike]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

A wet test is simply to squirt some oil in the cylinder and then do a compression test.Usually it will raise the compression some.I'm betting if you get her running and do a decarb you'll get better compression.
You certainly could do a rebuild on the starter.
You might carefully try jumping directly to the starter
with jumpers. to see if it cranks.As long as the basic components are sound you could rebuild it or pull it and have a shop rebuild it.And of course you could take it apart and have them test it,refurbish the armature and buy the parts there and put it together yourself.
As far as the hull it could fall apart ,its not unheard of.
After doing the work to get your motor working it would be a shame to damage it or lose it to a crumbling boat.
You can test it some using muffs or a big barrel.
Unfortunately about the only way to do a full test is on a boat.Be sure to read the manual before doing any ignition trouble shooting.The system may be prone to damage if tested carelessly.

 

[PumaBmx]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

JB,
If I could get the engine running for about $400-$500....would a hull swap be worth the trouble ? Considering the prices of decent used 85hp (or similiar) engine would bust my overall boat budget. Im think pending the engine performance after some work, I could dump the fiberglass Bayliner and would go with an aluminum hull to avoid rot and delam worries.
No more Yugos!

Steelspike,
To TRY to get this engine running what are the 1st things to do ? Or in what order ?

1) Carb overhaul ?
2) Starter overhaul/replacement ?
3) Water impellar ?

Since the note for the Lower Unit was marked as "good".
Does this mean I dont have to service those fluids ? Or change it anyway ?

Thanks for all you help !

 

[deejaycee_2000]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

1. impellar, 2. carbs, 3. first check if the starter works (sometimes they wanto fix something that is not broken for extra bucks) ..... change the lower unit gear oil anyway, it is cheap and easy ....... if I was you I would keep it, those are nice boats ...... there is easy and cheap way to repair rotten floorboards and transoms, check in the boat restoration forum ......

 

[PumaBmx]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

Well great, all of this sounds like there is still some hope.
I COULD ...but really dont want to finance a $5000 or $6000 for a used boat. New is out of the question.
But Im willing to try and fix and salvage what I got for several hundred dollars(more or less).
I will take the advice and wait until the engine works to do anything about the hull. Cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

[tommays]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

Given your tight budget a smaller bost and motor would sound like a better way to go

My parents had a 12' boat with a 5.5 johnson until i was about 16 years old and there big boat in later life was a 16' with a 50 Hp

We allways had nothing but FUN

i almost 51 now and owned boats between 12 and 24ft and hove found out i am real happy with my 19 ft boat in the big picture


Tommays

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

Transom and floor: Stand on the ventilation/cavitation plate with the engine tilted some and the boat on the trailer. If you can bounce on it and it doesn't tear out of the boat, It won't while you are on the water. If you can see stress cracks in the splash well fiberglass (not gelcoat), they are due to a weak transom and repair is definitely recommended. The floor can be punky and shot, but the hull is fiberglass. If there are no holes in it, it is probably ok for testing purposes. As I said before, Bayliners were entry level boats. They were nice looking but inexpensive construction. You do not want to put too much money into it in repairs. If you like the boat and are not afraid of some dirty and frustrating work, plywood and fiberglass are not too expensive. But if you think repairing the floor is too much for you, buy a different hull.

The engine: Carbs-- I really like WD40: it cleans out varnish almost immediately. Definitely change the lower unit oil. You don't know what the shop did. They may have drained it and not refilled. Definitely change the water impeller, It only costs about 17 bucks and you know you will be getting cooling water. Starter motor? jump a direct hot from battery to the terminal on the side. If it cranks over it is ok and something else is wrong to have the shop say it needed a starter. Any way, if the shop didn't try to start it, how do they know it needs a starter? FYI, that engine can be easily pull started with the ignition key on and the carbs primed. The flywheel has rope notches.

If the engine was running when put in storage (as you indicated) and you do not need a starter, you should be able to get it running again for no more than 100 bucks. __basically cleaning fluids, refill oil and pump impeller. --maybe 1 0r 2 seals

 

[PumaBmx]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

Ok
- The starter was broken so I had that fixed.
- I took the carbs off and sprayed them Carb cleaner thru all the jets and holes. Gaskets looked ok. The bowls and carbs looked surprisingly clean.

- I changed out lower unit oil.....the old oil was black....but no milky color or water was present as far as I could tell.
- I have no battery for the boat so I jumped from my truck. I finally got the motor to turn over. However...it turns over kinda slow. My truck battery is a 600 CC car battery....is it tooo small ?

But it wont start nonethe less....anyone have any idea where i should start to look ?


thanks in advance

 

[steelespike]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

Be sure you check all connections especially the grounds.Clean and tight.I think I would hook the battery up in the boat. If the battery turns your car over it will surely turn over the boat.Feel all the cables for a hot spot.Be careful as they could be really hot.Try jumping direct to the starter.
Have you tried to turn the motor by hand?Does it seem stiff?
Working from a manual check for spark. If they said the carbs were gummed up then you should check the fuel system from tank to carb,with special attention to cleaning.Even if it appears to be pumping gas now if it is gummed up it can foul up your fuel pump and carbs all over again.Disconnect line to carb and carefully crank and observe flow of gas into a can.Should be a strong rythmic pulse.

 

[Realgun]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

Ah another free boat.

First things first.
1. Put battery in boat and attach cables.
Did you charge the battery first?
2.Put key in ignition but do not turn yet.
3. Make sure your dead man switch is not cutting the ignition. In otherwords make sure you safty switch has the cap or cable installed.
4. Pump up the bulb till its firm.
If you pump and it does not get firm you need either a fuel pump or the carb flaots need to be adjusted.
5. Move the throttle to the open position without being in gear. You may have a lever or pull on the throttle out then forward.
6. Be sure you have water for the engine.
I use a garbage bag and a bungie cord. Works pretty good andf make sure you leave the hose dribbling a bit into the bag.
7. Turn the key to the run postion.
8. Pust the key and listen for a click. The click is the choke.
9. While holding the key in try to start the motor.
Do not try more than 10 seconds at a time or you will burn the starter out.
10. If the motor catches immedialy let off from pushing the key. Then trottle down after a minute or two to idle.

>>>>>>>>WATCH THAT THE BAG DOES NOT BREAK<<<<<<<<<

 

[Realgun]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

JB every time you bash my Liner I take it out on the water just to prove you wrong. I sure do love the way it handles. :devil:

IF the transom is shot throw that boat away!!!! If its just the floor fix it. My 2 cents.

Click my sig to see my liner. Before and after. repair

 

[PumaBmx]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

After reading my trusty manual I discovered that the previous owner had replaced the original ignition switch with a 3 terminal lawnmower switch and rigged a homemade relay to open and close the magneto. The OEM switch had 6 terminals. 2 open and close the magneto. I purchased the new switch ($20) and installed it.
BAM !!! IT FIRED UP AFTER 3 TRIES ! Alot of sputtering and exhaust smoke at first.
I did have earmuffs on with the hose attached and the water was definetly on. How do I know that the the motor is getting sufficient cooling water ? I ran it twice for about 3 minutes each time. The reason I didnt try it a 3rd time is because there was some smoke coming from the exhaust part of the engine even after I turned it off.

Where does the water exit after being sucked up from the lower unit ? Should I see it exit ?
Hope I didnt screw it up already ???

 

[MWBROWN]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

My 85 won't pick up water with muffs. I have to actually put the lower unit in water until it covers the pick up slots.

The water will come out of the two hole in the back of the engine that are about 1/2 the way up the engine. You cannot miss them.

After you put the engine IN water, you will get spray within a minute or two or sooner.

Do a search on the overheat alarm and how to test. That has been explained several times.
d
MIke

 

[Matthew A.]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

85 percent or so of the water that makes into the motor while idling should be exited out trim fin [located above and behind the prop] if single exhaust, and/or the props hub. if dual exhaust. The other 15 percent or so of water you should see spraying out the 2 small pee holes just below the cowling. If the water from the muffs isn't making it's way into the motor sufficiently you may need to either adjust the muffs a bit, increase the flow and/or possibly replace the water pump impeller.

 

[PumaBmx]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

I found a large container and filled it with water and ran the engine for about a minute. The water was a good 6 inches above the intake slots and still no water exited from any holes whatsoever. No foam, splashing or even ripples.
I have the Clymer manual but it seems a bit vague about water pumps and impellar removal and installation.
Question #1: Does the gearcase oil need to be drained for a water pump check/removal ?

Question #2: Do I change the only the impellar or the whole water pump assembly ?

Question #3: Can 1 person handle the removal and installation of the gear case ?

Question #4: Is it possible that water hoses could be obstructed with debris ?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: FREE Bayliner w/85hp Force, any good ?

1.Gearcase oil does not need to be drained but if you have not already changed it, it would be a good idea.
2. Look at the pump housing when you remove it. If it is severely worn, corroded, or cracked, then change both impeller and housing. Otherwise, just change the impeller. I think impeller and housing cost about 60 bucks for the pair. Impeller alone is about 17.
3. One person of average strength can remove and re-install the gearcase. BUT-- it is heavy and clumsy, and a little difficult to re-install without a 3rd hand. You need to line up the shift rod, water tube, crank splines, and twist the unit or turn the flywheel or prop shaft until the splines mate with the crank. Then you need to hold it up with one hand while you put in the first bolt. Two people definitely make it go faster and easier. Remove the prop to shed a couple of pounds. Also, there is a steel ring and rubber sleeve at the top of the drive shaft to seal out water from the crank splines. This sleeve can fall off when removing the lower unit. sometimes it hangs up inside and you need to fish it out. It is not critical, but better if you be sure to re-install the seal. It goes with the beveled portion up toward the crank.
4. There are no hoses. there is only a brass tube running from the water pump adapter to the base of the engine. The tube and the engine block passages are sized that anything that makes it through the pump will probably pass through the engine also. It is more likely that you have a bad impeller. They are rubber and with a little abuse, they do fail. They also get hard with age and take a set, thereby losing a lot of their capacity.