Going foamless

[logan944t]

Re: Going foamless

the white could have come form any where....atmospheric contaminants......an improperly mixed barrel of resin

Ok as long as I didnt screw something up--there was high humidity when I was applying it--and I do live near a paper mill, which, when the wind is right...makes the whole area smell like a urinal cake.


I just got done roughing and scuffing the 1708 and will apply the 2nd layer in the morning. I had an air bubble all along the stiffener --which I ground out and I think needs a bigger fillet.


I was also poking around on the transom and even with just one layer of 1708 its solid. I dont think it was this way from the factory when new. The sides of the hull just forward of where the 1708 ends --I can push in with some force--but I cant move the sides where the 1708 covers it. Which led me to wonder if there will be issues in the future the way there might be issues with stringer installation if you attach the stringer directly to the hull with no "bedding"?

 

[logan944t]

Re: Going foamless

Got the second layer of 1708 on the transom. I also drilled the drain hole out.

Started roughin the stringer shells getting them ready for glass.

 

[logan944t]

Re: Going foamless



My tools for the day.






Mixed the 2 part urethane 8 lb foam in the big bucket and then poured into the stringer shells.







Had a blow out -- the foam started pouring into a place it wasnt supposed to be. No problem --just cleans up easy.





Tommorow I will trim it down to the level of the old stringers--+1/4" and cap them with the 1708. I want the outer stringers to be higher than the old ones so the deck has a slight low spot in the middle to drain the water to the aft bilge.

 

[logan944t]

Re: Going foamless




All sanded down to shell level. 36 grit on a belt sander took about 30 minutes.





Close up.

Im kinda at a standstill --except for small detail work. Ive used 5 gals of resin to get to this point. Five more gals and the 2 lb foam is on order from US composites.


Two layers of csm on top of the shell -- hopefully its thick enough to provide a good radius -- then a layer of 1708 to the base of the shell.


The first time I mixed up this 8 lb foam it was a lot colder. When I mixed it this time it was above 75 and in the sun. The density is definately different and the foam is more....crumbley. I have no problem using it --but if I ever do this with another boat I will get the 16 lb instead of the 8lb.

 

[fishbone77]

Re: Going foamless

How are you planning on applying the 2lb foam - before you lay the deck, or after?

 

[logan944t]

Re: Going foamless

As it stands right now I plan to apply the foam after the deck is down-- but Im still thinking about it. The foam in the stringers wont hold a screw ( altho thats one reason I making the glass on top of the stringers a bit thick) -- so the 2lb foam will have to have some adhesion qualities and I will have to use some sort of proper adhesive ( epoxy/ PL) on top of the stringers as well. Im thinking that staples would be a good idea until the adhesive can stick. The original deck was fastened with only staples and poly resin.

 

[fishbone77]

Re: Going foamless

I see - let us know how it works for you - I'll definitely be interested on any comments you have after doing it / how it goes!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Going foamless

If you lay the deck and the pour the foam thru vent holes, make sure and have some heavy weights inside the deck to keep the foam from flexing it. If you do that, the foam will adhere itself to the deck, stringers and hull and make them all one unified structure. You won't believe how solid it will all feel.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Going foamless

View attachment 137299

My tools for the day.

Nix the power mixer there logan .. way way WAY too much. ..

Stir sticks is all you need.

You will cut your working time shorter with a power paddle .. mix it and pour it where you need it. Do NOT Dump the batch ..spread it out..wait..patience ..when the bucket starts to go you will know when to Dump/scrape the rest out.

That last little Ounce or two on the bottom of the bucket will foam up over the top..think what its gonna do when you pour 32 OZ of Expandable foam in places you want before you start the 'pour' .. not 'dump'.

YD.

 

[logan944t]

Re: Going foamless

If you lay the deck and the pour the foam thru vent holes, make sure and have some heavy weights inside the deck to keep the foam from flexing it. If you do that, the foam will adhere itself to the deck, stringers and hull and make them all one unified structure. You won't believe how solid it will all feel.

Thats what Im hoping for --with the whole hull filled with foam this is closer to a surfboard than a boat .

Nix the power mixer there logan .. way way WAY too much. ..

I gotta have some fun! For the stringers I mixed 64 oz (x 2) so I was worried that a stir stick + 25 seconds to mix wasnt gonna be enough. The mixer cut the time down to about 15 seconds so I had about 30 seconds to pour--remember the temp was up and I was in the sun in florida.

That last little Ounce or two on the bottom of the bucket will foam up over the top..think what its gonna do when you pour 32 OZ of Expandable foam in places you want before you start the 'pour' .. not 'dump'.

Yep-- found that out. The more you pour the higher it goes--exponentially. One inch high expands to say, 6 " --two inchs doesnt expand to 12" --but more like 18".

Its a good thing I didnt have this stuff during my prank days........

 

[logan944t]

Re: Going foamless




Welcome to Fun With Foam!!



Got started on the bulkheads today. I needed a way to get a form for the 2 part foam and I had an absolute need to use ducktape in some way today. I fitted and formed the EPS -- even put a chamfer on the inside edge so the 2-part would have a built in fillet for the glass --and then ducktaped the EPS in place.




I did the outer bulkheads today--tomorrow the inner.






The EPS has a layer of plastic that made release easy when the 2-part was hard--altho the 2-part did cling in places.

 

[oops!]

Re: Going foamless

here logan.....let me save you some work....

read this.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=522237&highlight=fiberglass+deck+foam+hull

ok....i was just re reading....dont know how i missed it before.....the white on the resin is water !

did you wash the bucket ? did the resin get rained on?....

but dont worry.....you should be fine, as long as the entier batch is not white all the way thru....it should be amber in color.

 

[logan944t]

Re: Going foamless

did you wash the bucket ? did the resin get rained on?....

Yea-- got that figured out. There was a lot of humidity in the air and that turned it white. As soon as I wiped the glass and the sun hit it for a few minutes --it was normal color. It rained last night so I expect to see white in a few places.


Nice write up on decking.

 

[logan944t]

Re: Going foamless

Spent 4 hours trimming the old foam and fiberglass on the sides back another 8 or 9 inchs in prep for deck tabbing. Also roughed everything while I was there.

 

[logan944t]

Re: Going foamless

Got the last of the foam bulkheads poured this morning.

Now I have to figure out what measure Im gonna use to get a flat plane on all the stringers and bulkheads so I can sand the foam to all the same level.


I also drilled holes in all outer bulkheads to install drains.

 

[fishbone77]

Re: Going foamless

Hey Logan,

What I found to work well was to take scrap plywood and rip it to 1.5" strips, and essentially make a lattice in the dimensions of your floor - then the lattice (assuming you use the same thickness playwood as your floor will be) will sit in the space of your floor, will be stiff enough that you can level out all your stringers, and can also serve as a pattern for your new deck.

Just a thought, I'm definitely not a pro, but it has worked very well for me!

Best,

 

[logan944t]

Re: Going foamless

Thank you fishbone --I figured out something similar.


I used a 4' level I have as a straightedge and made marks where I needed them using the center stringer as a guide for the height. I had to use a tape measure to check my work because the tabbing line for the old deck was off by 11/2" on the port side near the bow. I was thinking that maybe the hull had warped after I took the cap off-- but its the old tab line thats off.


I got all the stringers sanded to the level I wanted--leaving the outer stringers about 3/8ths higher than the center. When I put the deck in Im hoping that the sides will be a bit higher than the middle creating a place for water to collect and run to the stern bilge.


Fedex made a delivery of 2lb poly foam and another 5 gal of layup resin. Unfortunately( for the project), I have a job interview tomorrow and expect to start working later this week--so progress will be slow for a while.

 

[fishbone77]

Re: Going foamless

I hear you about the slow progress - I got all excited to finish up some glasswork and then temps dropped into the 40s...guess I'm gonna have to wait a bit longer...haha - I guess the good thing is that when the time is right, the boat will still be there!

Good luck with the interview tomorrow!

 

[logan944t]

Re: Going foamless

Good luck with the interview tomorrow!

Thank you! Im 99% sure I have the job--this place is hurting for people, I have a clean background and my daughter who works there recommended me. I only want part time but they are pushing for 40+ a week. Dont these people fish!?

 

[logan944t]

Re: Going foamless

Covered the first outer bulkheads in csm yesterday. I like putting glass in a whole lot better than taking it out.