Going to look at a Chieftain

[paparoof]

Howdy y'all. Another victim of the Liquid Limo thread here. Think I'm gonna have to join the Starcraft Club as soon as possible.

My desires are simple really; downrigger fishing on Lake Superior (no more than 2-4 miles from shore) and taking up to six people plus a dog out on the local lakes and rivers in the Minneapolis area. My 14-foot Sea Nymph with the 6hp Johnson works great for bass fishing alone on 100 acre lakes, but it just doesn't fit the bill for any of the above.

Oh, and I need to be able to tow it with my V6 Toyota Highlander - I think the towing capacity is 3500 pounds, but I'll have to check that to be sure.

From what I've been able to gather, this might fit the bill perfectly:
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/boa/1709374631.html

I'm going to look at it on Wednesday, having given the seller fair warning/full disclosure that I'm not ready to purchase, I just wanna see one of these boats in person to get a real feel for it's size. But who knows ya know?

So here's questions for you folks:

Regarding 22-foot Chieftains in general....

1. Does this size and model fit the bill for the uses I described? Could I get away with a smaller model like the 18-footer with the cuddy (what's that one called)?

2. Ya think I can tow this size boat (loaded with gas and gear) with my Highlander?

Regarding this particular boat....

3. Assuming everything stated in the ad is true is this a good price? Having read through this forum pretty thoroughly, seems about a grand high to me.

4. If I just can't stop myself, what tips do you have for me when inspecting it fully? What questions would you ask the seller?

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

Welcome PAPA!

A few months back I started my quest just like you did, right here on iboats. It didn't take long before I had my rig, started the rebuild process and was totally brainwas....

er, a...

welcomed into the Starcraft club. This is a great place to be and the gents that hang around here are top notch!

Lets see if I can get your questions...

Up to 6 people and a dog, don't go smaller than a 22 footer. You'll be disappointed.

I think your Highlander will do fine hauling it.

I feel like that boat is over priced. That rig would have to be mint (I don't think it's mint), water ready, and the motor running absolutely perfect for me to fork over $4000. That is just me, the other fellas here may give ya some different advice though. I pinch the pennies big time so to me, just based on the info on the ad, I'd say $2500 tops.

At $4000 I think that rig would need to go to the marine tech to be inspected for me to sleep well at night.

Welcome and have fun!

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

I think you'd be really pushing it towing that with a Highlander. Even though it's aluminum....that's a lot of boat there. And the I/O isn't helping matters. You could have it weighed though and if it's within the limits go for it. I'd feel a LOT better towing it with a Highlander if the trailer had brakes.

I agree on the $2500. Old I/O's can be real money pits although it sounds like the seller has taken care of a lot of the periodic maintenance which is great. My buddy just picked up this one for $1300 or so in the fall. His trailer needs some work but the boat is water ready for the most part http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w200/ezmobee/Chris Boat/

 

[ts]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

Welcome Paparoof!

I agree the price is too high, especially since it will have the older generation outdrive (pre-Alpha, pre-MR, etc...). I bet the floor and transom will most likely need to be replaced too, and maybe you can use those as bargaining points.

I also did a quick bit of math on the boat you are looking at, and I agree with EZ. It will probably too much boat to pull with your vehicle.

I took a quick look at NADA Guides

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.a...&m=1474&y=1975&ml=S&gc=MR&gtc=MR&d=1600176087

So you're looking at:

2400# for the boat including sterndrive
800# for a tandem axle trailer (guess based on a single axle being 650#)

3200# total, not including gas or gear

So if you add 6.5 lbs. per gallon of gas * 55 gal. = 358#

You're getting up over 3,558+ lbs...

...and if it's got wet foam under the floor you're going to be quite a bit over.

I'm sure you could tow a Chieftain 18 like mine (about 2500+ lbs total), but I'm not sure if it would be enough boat for 6 people...

Decisions, decisions...

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

Time to buy a new truck too!! Love excuses to buy a new truck!

 

[elkhunter338]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

I would agree price is a little high. I paid $4700 for a 1986 21 foot cheiftain 5 years ago on the west coast. It had a full canvas top, but in the end the boat was in poor shape once I got digging. Transmon was rotted, floor was bad, and it ended up the motor was a 1971 merc 140 not a 1986.

A 22 foot cheiftain is as small as you want for 6 people. I fish 4 people and this is about it unless you have someone who is willing to stay in the cabin.

I would have to say they are lying about the weight, mine tops out at 4,000lbs on the axles. Mine is full of gas (40 gallons), 25hp kicker (130lbs), 2 batteries, halibut weights, fishing gear, and few other items. No the foam is not full of water because it weight was about 3800lbs right after I had the floor out of it, since then I added a larger kicker motor and some more gear.

 

[Starcraft Enterprise]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

I took my 18' Starchief (mini-Chieftain) with 120hp I/O to the local feed and grain mill to weigh it a while back. Unhooked from the truck, the boat and double axle trailer weighed exactly 2,900 lbs. 6 people is doable on my boat, but crowded. 2 adults and 2 children is pleasent. Click on my signature and you can see what a Starchief looks like. I believe the name was changed in the late 70's to a Chieftain, but it's still the same hull as my Starchief. Very fuel efficient, but still capable of 35 mph. I run downriggers and side planers off of the back of it with an auxillary outboard for trolling. I would not be afraid to take it onto the Great Lakes. Very easy to tow, double axle trailer helps. My parents had the same model when I was a kid but on a single axle trailer. I can remember it rocked back and forth alot more than mine does. But some of that might have been due to the 13" passenger car tires my dad was using for trailer tires. No matter how much air was in them, they still bulged at the bottoms.

 

[paparoof]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

Holly crap! Ask some questions and get some good (and detailed) answers! There's enough info here to keep me grounded during my visit to this boat tomorrow (later today).

Clearly, I need to look at this one, and then many more boats... uh... Starcrafts.... before I settle on one. At least I heard what I wanted to hear about the price.

Something I already know, I'd much prefer an outboard rig, if for nothing more than the ease of replacing the motor someday, or even adding a second one. A buddy of mine claims he would never launch into Superior without at least two motors - just in case. It's a big ole, bad-azz lake and you do not tempt her.

The more I stare at the pictures of this one, it seems like half of the boat is indoors. I could fit four people outside comfortably, but the other two would have to sit inside and miss out on the witty banter and reparte - and we just can't have that now can we? I wonder if something in the same length, but without the cuddy cabin would workout better for a group of six? Something more along the lines of (oh crap, is this getting cliche yet?) the Liquid Limo?

Stick with me folks, I promise I'll do the Club proud once I get in....q

 

[paparoof]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

Click on my signature and you can see what a Starchief looks like.

Aw dood, all I had to read was the paragraph about the maiden voyage and see that picture of your son driving.

THAT'S WHAT I WANT!!!!

Okay, off to bed now. Breathe slowly... my day will come... dreams of sugarplums and Starcrafts, etc....

 

[Bwana Don]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

Good luck.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

The mid west is full of SCs. You'll find one. A big SuperSport would be awesome and you could have a bow cover made for it for out on the great lakes.

 

[ts]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

Yep, they're out there. I just sort of stumbled onto mine. I think Jasoutside looked for awhile and patience paid off.

Good Luck!

 

[paparoof]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

Yeah so....

I went and looked at that Chieftain (from post #1 above) this evening and boy, it's pretty rough. Its had a lot of what people here in Minnesota call "remuddling" done to it. I sure as h**l wouldn't pay anything close to 4 grand for it. I think I'll pass. I think I'm gonna seek out an 18 footer to go look at.

I'm getting pretty quick at flipping through craigslist. Seem most people delete and re-post their ads every couple of days, so I'm seeing a lot of repeats.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

Goog move papa!

You can subscribe to this link...

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=369584

...and have a lot of great guys on your search team!

 

[Bwana Don]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

If you want a Starcraft then there's plenty of people here that will be more than happy to look for you. We get a little crazy and worked up about someone getting a Starcraft.

How far are you willing to drive?
What are you looking for; A) Model B) Length range?
Price range is helpful also.

We'll release the hounds and track her down. Be patient there are a lot of these boats in the Midwest. Michigan is flush with them as well as Ohio, Indiana....

These guys around here can smell a deal three states away. We'll find her, yes we will. You can't hide from the "Nation".

 

[Daltonxj]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

can even look in Texas LOL

 

[paparoof]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

I've always wanted to go to Texas....

Most importantly, the "where's my tax refund?" tool on the IRS website says I'm still four weeks out from having cash in hand. So don't find me any screaming deals just yet or you'll only be torturing me.

Absolute hard limit to the budget is $3500, that's it, not a dollar more. So I think I need to find a boat for between $2000-$2500 so I still have some money left over to fix stuff and "accessorize".

The Chieftain is definitely one extremely cool looking boat. I absolutely love the style. However the 22-footer is all compromise. It's not big enough for spending a weekend out on the water, and there's not enough open space for serious fishing. And in the end, suitability for fishing is priority number one for me. If the wife prefers a cruiser, let her pay for it. Even though it's a big ole 22-foot boat, you still could really only fish two people comfortably out there. I found myself wishing the helm and cuddy cabin wall were about two feet forward so the cabin is smaller but the outside portion was bigger. I know I could gut it and rebuild it in that fashion, but I don't want to do that much work right now. Once I live on a farm and I can build a "Boatel" like what's his name (NorthBeach?), I'd love to tackle a big project like that. But alas, the farm is ten years away.

So I think stepping back to an 18-foot open-bow, walk-through makes much more sense for use as a slightly-more-dedicated fishing boat. For touring/crusing, I can still put up a bimminy (bimini?) top and get "inside" if I want. I can tow it more comfortably with my current vehicle and (relative to the Chieftain) without the weight and wind resistance of the cabin while towing, I should get much better gas mileage on the 200-mile drive to Superior. I also think I'm still gonna be relatively safe taking it out a couple 2 or 3 miles from shore on Superior - as long as I always keep one eye on the skies, which ya just gotta do anyway. Granted, I haven't looked at an 18-footer in person yet so I'm making lots of assumptions here.

Something like this one:
http://duluth.craigslist.org/boa/1705743743.html

But between $2000-$2500.

And here's something else I'm struggling with. I/O versus outboard. I brought this up with the seller I met with today - told him I'd prefer outboard, and he said I/O would be less expensive in the end because you can find used engines for $400-$500 and you can't get a used 165 HP outboard for that. I just see the whole I/O setup as more complicated, therefore, more potential points of failure. I like to keep solutions simple and outboards just seem simpler to me. Maybe I'm way off base on that one, that could just be my lack of experience with I/O's. I'm a pretty technical and logical guy and I love learning how things work, so if I go with I/O, it's only a matter of time before I'm all read-up and comfortable with them. What do you guys think will give the best reliability and lowest total cost (financial and headache) over the years?

I also want to say I really appreciate the enthusiastic replies and info. Seems like I've found a great groups of folks here, with some good experience and willingness to share it. So... thanks!

 

[ts]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

I love this Craigslist "multi-tool"

http://www.craiglook.com/



There's also this one:

http://www.searchtempest.com/

 

[paparoof]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

Oh, I didn't answer the "how far do I wanna drive" question - I drive for living, so driving doesn't bother me in the least. I once drove all the way around Lake Superior just because.

However, if I find out what looked good in a low-res picture is actually a trash heap (like happened today) after driving ten hours, I'm gonna be pissed. So if it's more than an hour away, I want lots of high-res photos to inspect first. If it's more than a state away, I'm gonna want to find someone to go look at it for me first.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Going to look at a Chieftain

Couple of things I am thinking after reading your post...

You'll at least want to check out the Islander series. Basically the same hull as the Chieftain but the cabin is smaller and pushed forward as you mentioned you are looking for. When I was on the hunt I was really in search for either one but in the end I am glad that I ended up with an Islander for that reason.

If you are headed to "The Lady" on a regular basis (my buddy and I have a nickname for Superior) than I would suggest that you stick with a boat that has a cabin. The Lady can sure turn nasty on you in a hurry. Having an open bow limits what you can do out there.

In short, after reading through your wants/needs, I'd be looking for an Islander in the 22' range. If you can find a 26' that would be super cool. There have been two that have surfaced over the past couple of months and I am sure there are more out there, just rare.

IO v. OB, swing on over to the motor section, you'll be reading for days. Jump onto my thread to do some reading and you'll see that was something that I wrestled with big time. I ended up going IO not necessarily because that is what I wanted but because it was super cost effective for me and probably what was best for my boat. I got the whole set up for a song where as to go OB it would have been A LOT more for me.

You could ask ezmobee about OB v. IO, prolly be a quick conversation. Just a heads up - a big ol Starcraft OB is a very rare animal to be sure.

On the money side of things - I think the $2500 mark is a tough range to work with. Mainly because rigs that sell around that dollar amount seem to be ones that guys think are in good shape, run ok, ready for the water (or nearly ready for the water) sort of boats. Once the seller get her home and start digging in they often realize that the ENTIRE boat need to be rebuilt along with major issues on the driveline. Pop on over to the restoration section and it won't take but a couple of minutes to confirm that. When it's all said and done the happy boat owner has $2500 with the initial investment and than another $2500 into the rebuild/repair. In many cases a guy could pick up a turn key set up and go have fun for $5000. Don't get me wrong, there are diamonds in the rough, but you have to look hard to find them. At the same time I see listings for $2500 (and more, sometimes way more) boats just about every day that need to be completely rebuilt, top to bottom, the seller just doesn't realize it yet.

I know when I started my search I was looking for the cheapest piece of garbage I could find (I actually found mine at the scrap yard). That way I had no surprises, unless they were good ones. I had no expectations so things could only get better.

Anyway, I suppose what I am trying to say is...

At the $1000 and less price point you are looking for a boat that probably will need to be completely rebuilt. At the $5000 mark you'll probably be on the water this summer having fun! In between there you might be rebuilding (spending money, spending time) or might not. Like I mentioned, there are diamonds in the rough.

Might you be looking for a rebuild project sort of deal or are you more in the get on the water category? I think it makes a big difference.

You've invested nothing for my advice and that is likely what it's worth eh!

Have fun man!!!!

Wow, that ended up being a long post, sorry.