Got me a Starchief

[ducky12]

Re: Got me a Starchief

I see you need the Starcraft original side mount helm seat hardware to replace the ugly seat mounts someone made.
The Seat hardware is still made by Garelick. They will not sell direct. I bought mine from Freeport Marine supply 1-800-645-2565 and on their website they have a picture of the mounts.

Product item # GAR75044 : Garelick Side Mount Helmsman

I payed $37.99 for each seat mount

 

[starcraftkid]

Re: Got me a Starchief

Azek is cellular PVC also. You can see all the specs etc at www.azek.com. A 4x8 of 3/4 azek is 69 lbs, if I read the specs right of the Certainteed stuff that weighs 80 lbs per sheet. It also is available in smooth or woodgrain and takes paint well. I wouldn't call it rigid though, it is pretty flexible in large pieces. I will call my supplier and see what it is going for these days. For the cabin wall though you could use 2 layers, 3/8 ply on inside and 3/8 cellular pvc on the outside.

I have a 24" x 48" piece of 3/4" here that weighs in at 17lbs 1 oz. on both my postal scale and another shipping scale I have in the store room.
That would make a full sheet 68lb 4oz. total. I've also got a strip that I cut off about 4" wide and 18" long, also in 3/4" and it will hold my 300lb weight with no noticeable flex when spanned across two pieces of 4x4 wood.

The full sheets I had were as rigid as plywood when handling them, I didn't measure any amount of flex on a full sheet but these were 3/4" sheets. I don't think I'd have used this stuff in any thinner grades for decking.
The boat I used it on had aluminum supports every 23", and being a smaller aluminum boat, there's not much walking around being done, so it's not likely ever going to be stressed enough to worry about. The sheet of 3/4" PVC weighed in about the same as a sheet of 5/8" plywood, give or take a pound or two. The original decking was 1/2", so I figured I added about 20 lbs to the boat overall using the 3/4" PVC panel. If it were cheaper, I'd consider doing a larger boat deck with it, but to do the 16' boat project at hand it would take three sheets to get the panels needed. If it were cheaper, I'd go that route but I can buy aluminum and add a few more aluminum cross members and still be lighter and a whole lot cheaper in the end. Cost wise though, wood is still probably the best option on any aluminum boat deck simply because most are so easy to replace.

 

[rheagler]

Re: Got me a Starchief

Ducky12: Thanks for that info. That looks like what I want. If I had seen that a couple days ago, I would not have made my low budget pedestal seat mount. I'll see how it works out and maybe I'll get the Garelick one over the winter.
Stacraftkid: It sounds like the certainteed stuff is much more rigid than the azek, but it does seem to be the same weight. I was at my local lumberyard today, the sell Azek 3/4" 4'x8' sheet for $150. If you would like a sample, PM me your address and I'll send you one.

In more important news, I looked at the river this morning and decided that if I didn't get the boat in the river today I should be ashamed of myself. So I made sure I finished work on the early side and splashed the boat. The 50 HP Merc isn't going to cut it. 5000 rpm, 14mph. I'm thinking a different prop is not going to make a difference. I will see how it does with just me in the boat this weekend. For this afternoons test I had my common-law nephew with me and his friend, they each weigh about 200-225. Other than being slow, I like how the boat felt in the water. I did take some pics, but not enough. I also took a couple pics of my low budget pedestal seat. 4" schedule 40 PVC pipe, a couple discs of 5/4 Azek 1 on the floor, 1 on the underside of a piece of 1/2" MDO ply, swivel mount seat and I'm in business. I may even make one for the other side!

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Got me a Starchief

Congrats! It warms my heart to see that old neglected boat back out where she belongs.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Got me a Starchief

Boat on the water, yesssssss!

 

[rheagler]

Re: Got me a Starchief

Thanks!

 

[starcraftkid]

Re: Got me a Starchief

Glad to see it afloat!

That seat looks nice and simple, if it holds your weight and does the job, I'd go with it. The OEM seat mounts weren't nearly as sturdy looking. Just pay attention to the gunwale area and maybe even give it some more support, as in maybe adding a down brace between the gunwale flange and the package tray or deck.

I was sort of figuring you'd do a bit more then 14mph but I didn't figure much more than about 18 or 19mph on calm water. You probably can't get a large enough prop on that 50hp to move that boat efficiently. You will probably gain a lot running alone, losing 400 lbs will make a huge difference with a small motor.
What you need though is a something in the 90 to 115 range on that boat. I've got a 115 Evinrude on mine and its just right, with a size too small prop I can still get 31 mph and could get away jumping up to a higher pitch. The prop on mine was off the boat the motor was on before, which was far heavier than my boat. Since I often run heavy with gear and do some crabbing, I left the lower pitched prop on it for now. My cabin is usually full of fishing gear, lead weights, spare change of clothes, and an extra fuel tank or two of gas. I also have a separate deep cycle battery in the cabin that runs my fish finder and GPS.

With the Starchief you are fighting both size and wind resistance, the cabin and upper windshield catches a lot of wind.

One thing I did find out the hard way is that my boat did much better after a heavy coat of bottom paint vs. a bare hull that was well waxed. I gained almost 5 mph AFTER bottom painting my boat with a roller. I was told by a guy at the prop shop that the rougher, dull surface of the bottom paint breaks the surface tension and lets the boat 'slip' through the water easier.

 

[barato2]

Re: Got me a Starchief

the cabin and upper windshield catches a lot of wind.

you're telling me. given the weight, i was surprised how hard my Taco was working to pull mine back from ABQ. prev owner towed it with a Westy and i wonder if one reason this was possible was that the Westy created a draft the 'chief lived in.

interesting that the rougher hull bottom flows better....it's not just surface tension, as the same effect occurs in cylinder heads....a port smoothed to only about 120 grit flows better than one that's mirror smooth

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: Got me a Starchief

Excellent work RH, the cabin door looks great

I agree that it's awesome to see that rig back on the water after all it's been thru

 

[slowleak]

Re: Got me a Starchief

the cabin and upper windshield catches a lot of wind.
......................
interesting that the rougher hull bottom flows better....it's not just surface tension, as the same effect occurs in cylinder heads....a port smoothed to only about 120 grit flows better than one that's mirror smooth

Check this out: http://www.kisspolymers.com/Science/dragreduction.htm

http://wings.avkids.com/Book/Sports/instructor/golf-01.html

It sort of explains why a rough surface works better, much like the dimples in a golf ball.

 

[rheagler]

Re: Got me a Starchief

Don't tell me anything about rough surfaces performing better! You might encourage me to leave the current paint on the boat. I think 36 grit sandpaper is smoother than my boats hull!
Thanks for the comments though, saturday can't get here soon enough to put the boat back in the river!

 

[starcraftkid]

Re: Got me a Starchief

I think overall speed has a lot to do with how much a rough surface affects performance.
I would think that if it were too rough you would indeed still induce drag at certain speeds.
Those military coatings produce a finish that feels much like a shark's skin. Similar to fine sand paper.
Things to watch out for are anything that protrudes below the hull, bolts, rivets, etc. these will no doubt create drag.

When I looked at that boat, the bottom was painted with several coats of paint, it wasn't nearly as rough as the upper surfaces. Most of the rough stuff looked like it would scrape off pretty easily. I don't think it's an issue getting that boat moving. You most likely just can't push enough water with that motor to overcome the wind and water resistance.

What prop is on it? Is the motor running 100%? I've been on boats running Mercury 50hp four cylinders before, a few that no doubt outweighed your Starchief and they performed satisfactory. Maybe not 'fast' but they were sufficient.

Of course, those boats are rated at 120hp, your well under half of the rated HP. While you could most likely tune your motor to do better, it will never be all it can be with that small of a motor. At the very best, you will end up with a boat that runs just OK while pushing your 50hp to the limit to do so.

 

[rheagler]

Re: Got me a Starchief

I'll see how it works tomorrow with much less weight in the boat. That first time out I had 425 lbs of people with me, tomorrow I'll just have 200. I'll also have more of an opportunity to mess with the trim of the motor. I'm not sure what prop I have, but it was maxed out at 5000 rpm WOT. According to my manual, WOT should be between 5000 and 5500. At the marine store I like to do business at the technician told me by changing props to bring up the rpms, I'll probably only gain 1-2 mph given the size of the boat, wind resistance etc. At any rate, I'll stick it out the rest of the season with the 50. Over the winter I will find something bigger. But I completely agree that at best the motor is going to be maxed out.

 

[rheagler]

Re: Got me a Starchief

If there is a dunce cap around, I need to wear it for a while. When I took the boat out the first time, with the 2 big guys, I was looking at the speed on my Humminbird fish finder. it showed about 14 mph. Yesterday, with one other 175# guy, it again showed 14 mph. It felt faster than that, so I turned on the GPS. 25mph! I think I'll keep the 50 HP for a while longer, if something bigger comes along I'll grab it, but I'm in no hurry.
When I got home, I pressure washed the hull. It took a lot of the paint off, which is good. I'll try to get some pics this afternoon.

 

[rheagler]

Re: Got me a Starchief

Started stripping the paint. ZipStrip works great. I want to keep the boat operational as long as possible, so I'm going around the rubrails for now.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Got me a Starchief

I thought that planing picture you posted looked better than 14. 25 is totally acceptable. My buddy's 21' Chief which is underpowered with a 90 goes 25-26. It's really not too shabby.

 

[starcraftkid]

Re: Got me a Starchief

If your seeing 25mph out of that, you could try a larger prop but drop a few points in pitch and see if it gets you to a higher RPM, but I doubt if you will gain much in speed.
I run a 115 on my Starchief, with two big guys, a 100 qt cooler full of ice, a 40 qt cooler for food and drinks, and all the fishing tackle I carry, my 115 only pushes the boat to 34 mph on a good day. With a minimum load and just me, with only one 6 gallon tank I can get it to 41 mph on almost smooth water. Wind is my biggest enemy. I've removed the top windshield on occasion on windy days to save some time and fuel.
Wind and weight make the difference in my top speed, while the prop can be changed to run at optimum WOT RPM, it does little as far as changing my top speed. I run WOT at 5400 RPM now with a 13 3/4" x 15p prop, but if I switch to a a 14"x13p, I can run with more weight, save some fuel, and my max RPM is about 5650. The boat is less affected by wind and current with the lower prop. My top speed changes very little, maybe 2 or 3 mph, but if conditions aren't perfect It'll actually run slower while still turning more RPM. It seems that the closer to that maximum performance point you get the more little things will affect speed. When running WOT, I find that even where I stand will even affect my speed, the farther toward center and forward I stand the faster the boat will go. With this in mind, the lightness of that 50hp may be helping you with speed in getting that boat on place better than a larger motor. (Less stern weight to get out of the water).

Just think about how much less fuel you will be burning with the 50hp vs. maybe going to double the HP.
On mine, with the 115, I burn about 11 gallons per hour, you more than likely half of that or less. If you can find a lower pitch prop for that and get the RPMs up to the max speed, the motor will drink less fuel too. I think you can get a 12" prop on one of those Mercury 50's.

 

[rheagler]

Re: Got me a Starchief

I am going to try a lower pitch prop. Not so much for the speed but to get the WOT rpms up to the upper range rather than the bottom.
I stripped more paint today after work. The paint is coming off much easier than I expected it to. I will try to get the required pics tomorrow, unfortunately it looks like tomorrow is going to be a long workday.

 

[starcraftkid]

Re: Got me a Starchief

Paint comes off aluminum pretty easy, its putting it back on that can be a task.
Be sure to completely clean off any stripper and don't get it on the trailer rollers.
Remember that aluminum will require a self etching primer before final paint.

 

[rheagler]

Re: Got me a Starchief

My paint removal ritual includes washing with soap and water with a clean water rinse when finished for the day. I agree that putting paint back on is going to be the hard part. I'm definitely going to use a self etching primer even though the paint I'm planning to use claims no primer is required on aluminum.
I picked up a new prop today. My trusted boat store expert recommended going only 1 inch down in pitch, he also told me if I'm not happy with it's results I can return it. I'll see what it does on Saturday.