GPS flakes out when I restart engine

[jhebert]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

...I disagree about your statement that a voltage sag will cause damage.

What statement?

 

[dingbat]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

Wiring the electronics to a secondary power source is nothing more than a Band-Aid fix. It doesn?t resolve the real problem of the voltage dropping to such a low level

If the unit has a properly designed power supply/ regulator, any spikes, transients, etc. are absorbed by the front end of the PS and not passed to the electronics. Under these conditions, the low voltage isn?t any harder on the ?equipment? than hitting the power switch.


On the other hand, the low voltage condition can be murder on a starter.


FWIW: None of my electronics turn off when I start the motor unless my battery is severely under charged or is due for replacement.

The PS in my sounder is good 10.2 to 31.2 VDC and can be jumped to 100-230VAC, 50/60Hz. My Garmin GPS is a bit less sensitive (has never shut down) at 10.0 to 35VDC

 

[bruceb58]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

If the unit has a properly designed power supply/ regulator, any spikes, transients, etc. are absorbed by the front end of the PS and not passed to the electronics. Under these conditions, the low voltage isn’t any harder on the “equipment” than hitting the power switch.

Totally agree.

 

[Splat]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

Yea I didn't account for the inrush current until the cap would be saturated. Hmmm.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

To be clearer, my unit never shuts down at all, or experiences a flickering/dimming screen. It's just that the GPS function won't operate after restarting the engine. I didn't mean to imply the unit shuts down completely; in fact, other than GPS functions, it continues to work fine.

Jim

Wiring the electronics to a secondary power source is nothing more than a Band-Aid fix. It doesn’t resolve the real problem of the voltage dropping to such a low level

If the unit has a properly designed power supply/ regulator, any spikes, transients, etc. are absorbed by the front end of the PS and not passed to the electronics. Under these conditions, the low voltage isn’t any harder on the “equipment” than hitting the power switch.


On the other hand, the low voltage condition can be murder on a starter.


FWIW: None of my electronics turn off when I start the motor unless my battery is severely under charged or is due for replacement.

The PS in my sounder is good 10.2 to 31.2 VDC and can be jumped to 100-230VAC, 50/60Hz. My Garmin GPS is a bit less sensitive (has never shut down) at 10.0 to 35VDC

 

[jhebert]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

...the GPS function won't operate after restarting the engine. I didn't mean to imply the unit shuts down completely; in fact, other than GPS functions, it continues to work fine.

Does your GPS receiver ever work at all when the engine on running?

 

[jhebert]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

If the unit has a properly designed power supply [and] regulator, any spikes [or] transients...are absorbed by the front end of the PS and not passed to the electronics. Under these conditions, the low voltage isn’t any harder on the “equipment” than hitting the power switch.

That is a great theory. What is your basis for assuming that every item of an electronic nature on all boats will conform to your theory? It is very commonly observed that many devices are intolerant of the voltage fluctuations that occur during engine starting. To insist they will be tolerant of these conditions seems to ignore the real world in favor of the imaginary world.

Further, just about all devices specify a range of operating voltage. When the supplied voltage is outside of that range, on what basis are we to assume that the device will continue to operate? Because you say it should? That seems completely unrealistic. The real world outcome is that when a device is supplied with a voltage outside of its operating range it does not operate properly. This is a simple paradigm. If you want your electronics to operate properly you just need to supply them with an operating voltage that is in the required range.

 

[dingbat]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

That is a great theory. What is your basis for assuming that every item of an electronic nature on all boats will conform to your theory? It is very commonly observed that many devices are intolerant of the voltage fluctuations that occur during engine starting. To insist they will be tolerant of these conditions seems to ignore the real world in favor of the imaginary world.

Further, just about all devices specify a range of operating voltage. When the supplied voltage is outside of that range, on what basis are we to assume that the device will continue to operate? Because you say it should? That seems completely unrealistic. The real world outcome is that when a device is supplied with a voltage outside of its operating range it does not operate properly. This is a simple paradigm. If you want your electronics to operate properly you just need to supply them with an operating voltage that is in the required range.

No where did I say the electronics would operate outside the tolerances of the power supply. I merely pointed out that there is circuity in the front end of any well designed unit to protect the unit from normal voltage fluctuations. Your certainly not going to do any harm to the unit by cycling the input voltage from 12VDC to 8VDC as you implied earlier.

 

[jhebert]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

I think you inferred that I made some sort of broad statement involving "8VDC". I did not make any statement like that. I have never used the word "damage" or "8VDC" in any of my comments here. You seem to have attributed all sorts of things to me that I did not say

I have given the same recommendation since my initial reply: run the electronics from a battery that is isolated from the engine cranking circuit to prevent them from being affected by the voltage changes that occur during engine cranking. It is common to see electronic devices reboot when the voltage supplied to them is outside of the range of voltage that they are designed for. If you think there is something wrong with those recommendations, you are welcome to offer you contrary opinion, but please to not invent things, attribute them to me, then offer rebuttal to something I did not say.

Further, I point out that having electronic devices reboot on engine start could be a safety concern in certain situations. Let me give you an example to clarify: suppose you are navigating near some hazard that is not marked, but you can avoid it by watching your electronic chart and depth sounder. If your engine stalls, and upon restart you lose all your electronics for several minutes while they reboot, there could be a safety hazard to you or your boat.

I do not rule out the possibility that damage could occur to electronic devices when they are operated at supply voltages outside of their intended operating voltage range. Therefore I disagree with a blanket statement that no harm could ever occur from this. There certainly could be harm from operating a device outside of its intended voltage range. This is one of the reasons the manufacturer specifies the range of operating voltage. If any voltage would be OK and was not harmful, why would a manufacturer specify a narrow range of voltage for a device?

I am not quite sure what point is trying to be made by all the suggestions that it is perfectly OK to have all your electronics chronically rebooting because you are supplying them with improper voltage, that it cannot be harmful to the electronics, or to you, or to the boat. Those assertions a just wrong, and I don't see why several people insist on making them, other than perhaps they like to argue about nonsense.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

other than perhaps they like to argue about nonsense.

Pot....meet kettle!

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

Does your GPS receiver ever work at all when the engine on running?

This is what happens:
1. Unit is on and GPS and fishfinder functions work as intended.
2. Boat engine turned off. Unit continues to function correctly.
3. Boat engine is restarted. Engine starts easily on first try with minimal cranking.
4. Unit is still powered on and fishfinder works. GPS does not work; speedo readout is frozen, map on display won't update position.
5. Power down unit (using on-off switch on unit), restart it, and everything works again.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

Contact Humminbird and explain your issue. Not sure if your unit's software can be upgraded by the user but sometimes when there are issues like these, there is a firmware upgrade that can be loaded.

Here is a table of the most current software. In your manual, it will tell you how to find the version you have. Probably a system test menu or something like that.

Humminbird: America

 

[jhebert]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

This is what happens:
1. Unit is on and GPS and fishfinder functions work as intended.
2. Boat engine turned off. Unit continues to function correctly.
3. Boat engine is restarted. Engine starts easily on first try with minimal cranking.
4. Unit is still powered on and fishfinder works. GPS does not work; speedo readout is frozen, map on display won't update position.
5. Power down unit (using on-off switch on unit), restart it, and everything works again.

Thank you for the further details.

The most reasonable assumption to be made from this narrative is that during engine starting there is some voltage change in the power supplied to the electronic device that causes its GPS receiver to malfunction. To test this theory, change the power to the electronic device to an isolated battery whose voltage does not change during engine starting. If the GPS receiver is no longer affected by engine starting, then you have found the problem.

I encourage you to power your electronic devices from an isolated battery that is not part of the engine starting circuit. During engine starting it is typical for the battery voltage to sag and for voltage transients to be created. Although others here suggest there should be no effect on electronic devices from fluctuations in the voltage supplied to them, it is very common for electronic devices to be affected by a change in the voltage supplied to them. When the voltage supplied to them becomes out of the proper range, electronic devices commonly malfunction or operate improperly. The remedy for this is to operate the electronics from a battery that is isolated from the starting circuit.

 

[jhebert]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

Pot....meet kettle!

The only comments I have made which might be considered argumentative were to point out that others have invented remarks, attributed them to me, and then offered some rebuttal. They are arguing with themselves. That is nonsensical.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

The only comments I have made which might be considered argumentative[all] were to point out that others have invented remarks[you], attributed them to me, and then offered some rebuttal[with yourself]. They are arguing with themselves[yourself]. That is nonsensical[definitely you].

Fixed it for you!

Believe me, there is no effect on the Global Positioning System when you start your outboard engine. It's up in space and it does not "flake out."

 

[jhebert]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

Fixed it for you!

Your comments are becoming more off-topic and nonsensical. You should limit your replies to the topic under discussion. You seem to be inclined to make other participants the topic of your comments. The forum would be better served if you limited your remarks to the technical topics and stopped your intrusion into these discussions to talk about the participants instead of the topic.

 

[Bondo]

Re: GPS flakes out when I restart engine

Your comments are becoming more off-topic and nonsensical. You should limit your replies to the topic under discussion. You seem to be inclined to make other participants the topic of your comments. The forum would be better served if you limited your remarks to the technical topics and stopped your intrusion into these discussions to talk about the participants instead of the topic.

Ayuh,..... Lets just like this Die, right here, 'n right now, children,....

As for the Topic,....
Anybody readin' this would understand the Main Topic, that Jim is talkin' 'bout, is his GPS, Receiver,....

Not the satellites involved,...

So,.... The 1st line of the 2nd post is in fact, Off topic,...

Don't make Us close Jim's thread over this squabblin',.......