Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

snapperbait

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

Good.... :) So whats the big deal? :confused:
 

billh1963

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

Interesting article. I lived in Crowfield Plantation (where Stratford HS is located) in the early '90's. My stepdaughter went there for 2 years. We noticed she was using drugs shortly thereafter and I always believed she started using there. <br />Maybe they've had a problem for a while.....
 

roscoe

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

Sounds a bit over the top to me. <br />And they couldn't even come up with a joint???<br />What ever happened to using force that matched the threat?<br />Or unreasonable search/probable cause?<br /><br />It seems that stun guns would have been more appropriate in a school. Afterall, the cops still would have had their sidearms in their holsters.
 

jim phillips

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

I have to agree with you rosco<br />Only the amount of force that reasonably appears necessary to control the situation. Guns drawn and a barking K9 seem a little much
 

Kenneth Brown

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

While I agree that drawing guns on kids in a scholl is a little harsh there is another side to this. Jim- What is one of the first steps that you utilize to de-escalate a situation? SHOW OF FORCE. It might have been meant more as a scare tactic than a seek and find mission. The parent Latonia Simmons said "I was just upset knowing they had guns put to their head"- the video obtained by CBS Affiliate WCSC in Charleston shows the police waving their guns. Theres a lot of difference there.
 

GodsBeast

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

Folks, you can't make a tactical entry with your guns in your holster, or walk in like Andy Griffin, with no gun. You have to enter, and TAKE IMMEDIATE CONTROL. A bunch of officer's walking in, unprepaired is only going to get you in total Kayous. Your going to have kids running from this room to that room, Officers splitting off, chasing individuals, getting all split up. It is better to make a SHOW OF FORCE, entry, if that is what you want to call it, but the entry has to be made at gun ready postion. <br />I watched the video! Hey if you don't want a gun to your head, COMPLY with LAWFUL COMMANDS. I didn't see anyone with a gun to their head that appeared to be complying! Besides, anytime a tactical entry is made, there is always complaints about having a gun to their head, just because the gun was out of the holster!<br /><br />What if one of the dope dealers freaked and shot one of the cops, because he gets the drop on the officer that has his gun in his holster. Now there is your child on the floor, a witness to a cop killing. He has already killed a cop, think he'll walk off and leave your child as a witness to it? <br /><br />Now take a second folks, think about it, If they would have walked in like Andy Griffin, and things went sour, there would be a line of folks lined up to complain that these Officers were not in CONTROL, did sloppy work, and why their children got hurt because they did not handle it professionally! Seems no one was hurt to me, so I say, Good Job guys, all of us, and all of them are going safely home to our families, they are going to B-tch about something no matter what we do anyway. <br /><br />Folks, you need to support these guys, they are the only thing between some type of peace and complete anarchy! If you expect them to be in control of any situation, you'd better give them some lee-way, or be prepaird to handle these situations yourself, if you keep chipping away at every incident "especially when no one got hurt."
 

jim phillips

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

quote<br /><br />__________________________________________________<br />Jim- What is one of the first steps that you utilize to de-escalate a situation? SHOW OF FORCE.<br />__________________________________________________<br /><br />A situation yes But it appears that this was a search and seizure, I can remember the cops coming to my school and searching lockers and kids but they came in force and took over a hallway and the class rooms, pulled every one out in to the hall and stood us against the wall while they searched are lockers, not on the floor with guns and dogs. I know times have changed and have gotten more dangerous but I still think it was a little much. We dont even do it that way at the prison for area searches
 

GodsBeast

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

Hey Lucky Jim, I know your comment was directed to Kenneth Brown, I just feel compelled to say this. I don't know how old you are, and how long ago that you are talking about when they came into your school. But yes, you are right, times are changing. Data is collected and checked constantly in these senerios. Years ago, all you had to do was tell them up against the wall, and they did it! That was reasonable force in those days. It is not working now, they have kids, bringing guns into schools and going on shooting spree's. Citizens DEMAND that we are in control, but gripe about the tactics, they critique to death, publicly humiliate, and Sue, if one thing goes wrong, because we were not IN CONTROL. <br /><br />The difference in entering a prison with numbers, is that the officers have a reasonable knowledge of the type of weapons the inmates may have made or aquired. We don't enter into the prison population with guns at all, if one prisoner gets the better of one officer in a physical confrontation, now he is armed! That is why the guns are kept out of the prison population and in the perimeter, in case there is a loss of control in the population area! <br /><br />Entering a school with hundreds of people with NO KNOWLEDGE of who is armed, who is dealing drugs, and not taking immediate control is Sloppy Police work. These students, facualty, etc. are not walking around with signs on them telling them who is armed, or carrying contraband. Usually Compliance, gives them some indication of where their attention needs to be focused. <br /><br />I would think that parents would rather know that a gun being in a trained Police Officer's hands, getting control of a situation, is better than than an Officer down, and a gun in the hands of "God knows who" being waived around, mind reeling thinking "God knows what" with their child at their mercy! <br /><br />Again, we demand these guys take control and handle these situations. We expect they do it with miminal loss of live, being first priorty, with Property expected to be second on the list. Lately we are getting mixed signals on this. <br /><br />Times are changing. Everybody went home safe, they did their job.
 

aspeck

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

Hey, if they entered the room like Andy Griffith it would have been okay, because Andy always had Barney Fife to pull the piston and cover his back! :eek:
 

Skinnywater

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

Godsbeast,<br />Thanks for your unique perspective and professional input.<br /><br />Based on what I saw in the film it looked excessive. And the fact that nothing was found proves it to be excessive.<br /><br />However, in this case the fault lies with the principal who obviously over reacted. Who didn't give law enforcement all the facts. Or improperly assumed, fabricated or used poor judgement in his communication with law enforcement prior to the tactical entry.<br />The interview with him seems to suggest this.
 

dhammann

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

A good lesson for kids to see the serious consequences of illegal drug activity. To hell with it being excessive...kids are exposed to enough violence on TV so they should be able to handle it.
 

marty_scher

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

Maybe their next step is to beat confessions out of the culprits with rubber hoses :mad: <br /><br />The only reality of this stunt is that the drug dealers will continue to sell drugs and the kids who were traumatized, will continue to be traumatized.<br /><br />Maybe these guys should be out looking for real criminals.
 

JasonJ

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

I have to agree with GodsBeast on this one. While I am not in law enforcement, I am a military veteran, my better half is a Sheriffs Deputy, and I have a lot of law enforcement friends. I am also in the process of application for a position on my local PD. They used the appropriate amount of force. It looks bad, but their job is to protect the civilian population and themselves. These are rough times. In the day and age of Columbine and kindergarden age kids being caught with guns, law enforcement HAS to use caution. All those who are whining about excessive police force needs to spend some time overseas and see how THEY do it. While in Germany, the first thing we learned was when the police told you to halt, you better, because they will whip the living s**t out of you otherwise. Our country has some pretty tame police tactics in comparison. Everyone wants to cry about police force problems until they are robbed or raped or whatever, then the cops are the next best thing to sliced bread. <br /><br />Lastly, those cops in that school didn't see kids. They saw kids that may be armed, desperate, and are not mature enough to understand the repercutions of drawing a firearm on a police officer. Thank God I finished shool in the 80s....
 

jim phillips

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

Good post's on both sides and I must admit I have not seen the video so I will stay on the fence for now
 

GodsBeast

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

Aspeck- I Miss those days also, it was good when folks respected Law Enforcement like Andy, and he didn't need to go in with Law Suits etc. on his mind. Also the days when your door didn't even have a lock on it, much less locking it.<br /><br />Skinnywater- I respect your opinion on it was excessive, even though I dissagree. I do however wish to stand up and clap for you, because finally someone GETS IT, A tactical team is just that, a tactical team, they do not make decissions on whether or not to enter, they are Ordered to enter, and held responsible for what goes wrong after entry, if done incorrectly. This however is not meant to shift the blame to the Principle, I feel for him, I bet the next day his office was swarming with Parents complaining about this incident. It is a tough spot to be in to make a call like that, and take responsibility for it. I don't have access to information available to him, that made him make that decission, so I wouldn't make negative condeming remarks on his request for a tactical entry, without that knowledge. I aplaud his statement of determination to take necessary action to provide a safe learning enviorment for our Children. So thumbs up to you Skinnywater for realizing that it was not the tactical teams decission to enter, and they just do what they know how to do, and are ordered to do.<br /><br />Big Dee- your statement is bold, thanks for your support. My view of this is Children taught to respect legal lawful commands, should not have that much trouble dropping to the floor (again statisticly proven to be the safest place for the non combatives) not that they are put on the floor as punishment, they are put there for their safety in mind. This action should also show those ridding the fence on whether on not to enter that lifestyle, that Drug use in the school will not be tollerated, and investigated. Folks, just because they didn't find any drugs, does not mean it is not going on there. There could be many reasons the drugs expected was not found in that one particular incident.<br /><br />Marty Scher- Come on, be realistic, no body was beat here! These are the statements that leaves our Officers, completely frustrated, and forces them into the attitude of "Us against them," instead of showing those Officers that are trying to run a straight line, down the middle, that they have some support, and lee-way, and giving them some hope that they are actually accomplishing anything, with this so called WAR on Drugs. Ever run into one of those Cops that folks say USED to be a good cop, and now he just rides and collects a check. You may consider finding a Department that allows Ride alongs, if there are any left (Most won't because of Lawsuits). One thing about those ride alongs, they should include the numerous road blocks the Officers face when going in to Court also. These shows like Cops only show the action, they do not show the effects of pressure from the public walk in complaints, pressure of different supervisors with different ideas of approaching a situation, the pressure of the Court system, and the D.A. which demands every i dotted and every t crossed, that one small detail, or mistake, loosing countless hours of dedicated work of other Officers, the countless hours of dedicated work lost to a plea bargin, to let someone go in a hope and a prayer of catching a bigger criminal, and seeing that go sour. Then finally doing every thing right, and see the criminal get a slap on the wrist because there is no room in the jail. Or making a sucessful tactical entry, where no one got hurt, but once again, being attacted by the Media! And the Media wonders why an Officer never wants to talk to them. Marty you are right about this, the drug dealers ARE going to CONTINUE to sell Drugs! They also are going to CONTINUE to target our Children as their Victims, give free samples, get them hooked, then make our Children going to school to actually get an Education, feel like a RAT for reporting Illegal Activity, in the hopes of having a safe learning enviorment. They were looking for REAL Criminals, the fact that they didn't find any on that perticular day, just proves that they didn't resort to beating with a rubber hose, because your fooling yourself if you don't think any drugs are there. Billh1963 said he believes that is where his daughter came into contact with it, and lets not forget, the K-9's did hit on residue on NUMEROUS Children's backpacks. Again, this was a tactical team SENT IN, and they were looking for real criminals.<br /><br />JasonJ, Thank you for your support, is your Application for Reserve or Full Time Employment? I Pray for you and your wife's safety either way, and that you be granted the strength to walk the straight line, and remain optimistic, through all the trials and tribulations to come. It is a bear out there, and remember Protect your back, and that especially includes the UNARMED enemys of Law Enforcement. <br /><br />GodsBeast
 

tylerin

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

Tell me someone, at what point do you not have your gun drawn. This was a scare tactic (scared straight), and I'm ok w/ that, but lets call a spade a spade
 

GodsBeast

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

Hi ya Tylerin, the answer to your question of a Patrol officer is, at his discression, along with responsibility of his action.<br /><br />To answer for a tact team. They have types of entry, and that type calls for, at gun ready.<br /><br />OK, lets say it was a Scared Straight Tactic, and I agree with calling a Spade a Spade. Point being though, the article was titled Gun toting Police Bust into High School, it is a Media attack! The tact team was ORDERED! So call a spade a spade, who reqested and Ordered the Raid?<br />But of course the Media will blame the Police as always, it is easy to stir up fence riders against them. :D
 

tylerin

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

Godsbeast don't take me wrong, I'm not walking any fences here, but IMHO I don't think these guys were all that afraid of these minors, just trying to prove a point. Thats why I'm saying, between us iboaters, lets call a spade a spade
 

GodsBeast

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Re: Gun-toting police burst into a South Carolina high school

Hey Tylerin, I respect your opinion, and I didn't mean to imply you were a fence rider, was pointing out the the Media, uses any aggressive action, especially filming of SWAT, to stir those that do ride the fence.<br /><br />Got to get back to the movie I am watching.
 
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