HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

[learningasIgo]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

So I stopped by O'Reilly's after church today and picked up a set of compression tester guages (I also made a homemade set at work last night). The adapter for the spark plug hole is too long on the set from O'Reilly's and would cause the piston to bottom out (I tested this by turning the flywheel by hand). I then tried to just thread the hose fitting into the spark plug hole, but wasn't able to get more than a 10 psi reading. I know that the reading is inaccurate because I was able to get 80 psi using my homemade set (which doesn't get the best seal). Do they make a set of guages specifically for use on outboards? I would just use my homemade set, but there isn't enough clearance between the motor housing and the lower spark plug hole to test the lower cylinder. Any ideas?

 

[Daviet]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

No, there are no special testers. Some have a long and short adaptor, mine has both. I have heard of someone cutting a piece of hose and putting it over the threaded end to take up space and seal the tester against the head.

 

[learningasIgo]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

Ok. So I made another adapter for my homemade guage and was able to get readings on both cylinders: #1: 65 psi, #2: 69 psi

I know those readings seem quite low, but keep in mind that it is a homemade set of guages.

I am confident that this motor has more than enough compression and was finally able to get it to run (quite poorly) just a while ago. It is starving for fuel and I am noticing fuel around carb bowl gasket, but can't tell if it is coming from there or (what I think is the case) running down from the top vent hole.

Obviously, this is getting a carb kit put in, but I was just curious if this problem could be coming from something to do with the leaf plate assemble or an intake valve leaking back??

Please let me know your thoughts and I will let you all know what I find after rebuilding the carb. Thanks to all who have helped with this so far.

 

[Daviet]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

Take the carb off and overhaul it. The reed valves have nothing to do with a fuel leak, they control air flow.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

Just to second the carb rebuild.......
And to mention that the reeds almost never give problems. There are also no intake and exhaust valves in your motor, so no worries about them. I'm suprised your having trouble with the o'reilly's compressio gauge--mine works fine.
Anyway, good spark and good fuel and it you will be really proud of your motor. They really run good and crank easy when you get them right.
Good luck,
JBJ

 

[learningasIgo]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

Just to second the carb rebuild.......
And to mention that the reeds almost never give problems. There are also no intake and exhaust valves in your motor, so no worries about them. I'm suprised your having trouble with the o'reilly's compressio gauge--mine works fine.
Anyway, good spark and good fuel and it you will be really proud of your motor. They really run good and crank easy when you get them right.
Good luck,
JBJ

Well, goes to show you what I know about outboards!!! :redface:

Seriously, thanks for the input guys. Got the kit tonight and rebuilt carb. Going to order a float to put in to though as I'm not to confident in the old flaky one that is in their now. I had trouble getting the packing/washer in both of the needle valves as I notice someone else on another thread mentioned as well. Not too impressed, but we'll see how they do.

Anybody have a good suggestion on where to start this carb out as far as how many turns to open the high/low neddles? Also, anyone have a suggestion on where I can get a manual for this motor as its obvious I have a lot to learn?

Also pulled lower end to inspect the impeller and what not. Also drained oil. First off, water pump housing was terrible dirty and and nasty. Lots oil residue - from exhaust I assume. Lower oil obviously had water in the oil (very milky looking). I found a small crack that I hadn't seen before, but it doesn't goe all the way through. Spent about an hour cleaning everything up nice and re-assembled and filled oil. I'm going to try to get this thing running tomorrow and then check the oil again after letting it run for a couple of minutes. Any tips on this one are welcome too. I'll update tomorrow after trying out the rebuilt carb.

 

[lindy46]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

Well, goes to show you what I know about outboards!!! :redface:

Seriously, thanks for the input guys. Got the kit tonight and rebuilt carb. Going to order a float to put in to though as I'm not to confident in the old flaky one that is in their now. I had trouble getting the packing/washer in both of the needle valves as I notice someone else on another thread mentioned as well. Not too impressed, but we'll see how they do.

Anybody have a good suggestion on where to start this carb out as far as how many turns to open the high/low neddles? Also, anyone have a suggestion on where I can get a manual for this motor as its obvious I have a lot to learn?

Also pulled lower end to inspect the impeller and what not. Also drained oil. First off, water pump housing was terrible dirty and and nasty. Lots oil residue - from exhaust I assume. Lower oil obviously had water in the oil (very milky looking). I found a small crack that I hadn't seen before, but it doesn't goe all the way through. Spent about an hour cleaning everything up nice and re-assembled and filled oil. I'm going to try to get this thing running tomorrow and then check the oil again after letting it run for a couple of minutes. Any tips on this one are welcome too. I'll update tomorrow after trying out the rebuilt carb.

Low speed needle (top): 1.5 turns
High Speed Needle: 3/4 turn

Make sure you replace the seals/washers on the drain and vent screws with new ones. They are the most likely cause of water intrusion. You can pressure test the lower unit to see if other seals are leaking and bad. Propshaft seals get fishline stuck in them and leak. Also the driveshaft seal under the water pump could be bad. There is also a shift rod seal (an 0-ring) that can leak.

 

[learningasIgo]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

Low speed needle (top): 1.5 turns
High Speed Needle: 3/4 turn

Make sure you replace the seals/washers on the drain and vent screws with new ones. They are the most likely cause of water intrusion. You can pressure test the lower unit to see if other seals are leaking and bad. Propshaft seals get fishline stuck in them and leak. Also the driveshaft seal under the water pump could be bad. There is also a shift rod seal (an 0-ring) that can leak.

Thanks, I'm gonna see if I can find a rebuild kit for the lower unit. On the bright side, the rebuild on the carb worked and I have everything running nicely and it starts on the first pull. Still waiting to get cables and wiring from guy I bought it from so I can use the electric start....but I have tested the starter and electric choke and they both work - should since he never used them. I also need to adjust the gears in the handle for the throttle control as I have the hold it on the "fast mark for Idle and wot is way past there - but that should be simple enough. I'll probably take it to the river for a 5-10 minute test run in the morning but not too long since I still will need to rebuild the lower end. I'll post updates later on. Thanks again for all the advice everyone has given - another dinosaur is brought back to life thanks to the "iboaters". Really glad I found this site - what a blessing.

 

[learningasIgo]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

Just a curiosity question: What does the is the difference in the four different models of 1961 Johnson 18 hp engines?

I'm assuming that the FD and FDL is difference between regular and long shaft. But what about the others??

 

[learningasIgo]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

Pulled lower unit again. Found what I obviously missed the first time: There is no O-ring under the bushing for the shift rod - it's gone!! Needless to say, there was obviously water in the oil again. So....here's the problem: How in the world am I supposed to get that bushing out of there to replace the o-ring?? It seems to be in there pretting tight and not really much room to work.

 

[Daviet]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

You have to drive it out from the bottom side, you have to dismantle the lower unit.

 

[learningasIgo]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

You have to drive it out from the bottom side, you have to dismantle the lower unit.

What do you use to drive it out? That hole from the bottom doesn't leave much of a lip to catch and I don't want to damage the brass bushing. What has your experience taught you on this?

 

[Daviet]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

There is a special tool to do it with. I just happen to have a punch that is the proper size. I have also tapped the very top of the bushing (5/16) if I remember properly, threaded a bolt into the bushing and then used a punch against the bolt. I am sure others have ways to remove it also.

 

[learningasIgo]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

There is a special tool to do it with. I just happen to have a punch that is the proper size. I have also tapped the very top of the bushing (5/16) if I remember properly, threaded a bolt into the bushing and then used a punch against the bolt. I am sure others have ways to remove it also.

Okay, thanks for the tips. I'll see what I can do with it.

 

[learningasIgo]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

Got it out. Having a hard time finding sierra part number for a seal kit for the lower end. Can someone help with this?

 

[learningasIgo]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

Got it out. Having a hard time finding sierra part number for a seal kit for the lower end. Can someone help with this?

Never mind. Found it. Still getting used to the navigation of this site. Thanks.

 

[Daviet]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

According to the sierra catalog
18-2684 = 1958-73 = 18hp
Lower unit seal kit

 

[learningasIgo]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

Got L/U seal kit installed and ran the the motor for about 15-20 minutes in a barrel today. Got it idling nice and everything sounding/looking good. Checked the oil and it was still free of water, so I think we are good. Now on to the next problem:

I was going to reset the throttle "linkage" and found that the pinion gear at the end of the control rod is split and the only thing keeping it on and functioning is the screw that locks it onto the rod. I can find it in the parts manual at marineengine.com but I can't seem to find a part number for it her at iboats. This is tiller handle throttle control and I will try to add a link so you all can see what I am talking about. In the drawing, it is item number 92. Can someone help me find a part number for this so I can order one?

http://www.marineengine.com/parts/vintage-evinrude-johnson/378460/catalog.html?http://www.marineengine.com/parts/vintage-evinrude-johnson/378460/37846000001.htm

Thanks.

You have to click on page ten to get the right drawing. Sorry.

 

[Daviet]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

Is the part number 303142?
It shows as still available, but it is going to be discontinued, you will probably have to have your local dealer special order it for you.

 

[learningasIgo]

Re: HELP!! - 1961 Johnson FD-15 18 HP - no fire on lower cylinder

Is the part number 303142?
It shows as still available, but it is going to be discontinued, you will probably have to have your local dealer special order it for you.

That the part number. When I search for it by part number on marineengine, it shows up unavailable. Does iboats not carry this part either? Don't really have a local dealer, guess I'm gonna have to find one. That should be cheap, huh!!!

Was hoping sierra or another aftermarket maker had them.