Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video

[15hpevinrude]

Bought this boat in Jan. It was an as traded special. The dealer said that this was his old boat, and he sold it to his buddy. Buddy had it for 12 years. Buddy had new rings installed by a machanic at a marina. Took the boat out ran good for a while then started running like crap. managed to limp it home and got pissed off and parked it. where it apparently sat for a while. Buddy's wife gave him the ok to trade it in on a new boat. this is when I bought it. Dealer says the gas in the tank with it was still the first tank of gas since the rebuild, and had double oil (25:1) for break-in and that the motor still isn't even broken in yet. I bring it home dump all the old gas(got 4 gallons out of a 5 gallon tank) Put fresh gas in it. This is what I have


http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxLWxo5bWC0

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnF9RyJkkE


You might notice it is not pumping water. I am trying to figure this out also?. Thats why I don't let it run more than about 15 seconds. I have had the water pump apart, impeller looks good, veins are intact, orifice's aren't clogged. if I hook a hose directly to the tube feeding the motor, it flows fine out of the pee hole(tell tale?) and the holes at the back of the motor. can I run the motor with the bottom end off and a hose hooked directly to the water tube of the motor? while I am trying to figure out the running prob?

Thanks for any help on trying to figure this thing out

 

[garzilla]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video

How do the plugs look?
have you checked compression?
I'd guess something's up with the Carb..seeing it ran okay...then pooped the bed.

 

[ultra353]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video

Most likely the carb is all gummed up with that 4 yr old gas, take it off and clean everything real good. Make sure all passages are completely clear. Also check to sure its firing on both cylinders. Check to make sure that the impeller key is there, if its not it wont turn the impeller whens its running

 

[15hpevinrude]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video

I did check the key, It is ok, and it is definately turning. I am going to pull the carb next. unfortunaely I can't check to much until I get the water pump figured out, because I can't really run it.

 

[dew2]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video

Lot of times it takes awhile for the impeller to make a telltale flow,Nothing like the hose.Dont run it without the lower,This time put it in a tank/lake no hose.After hearing it I would get the lower on and first thing would be compression test,Or pull the plugs and with a screwdriven in the plug holes touching the pistons turn the flywheel by hand see if both pistions are making their travel.Then if they are compression test.

 

[15hpevinrude]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video

A little more info. I did run it in a tank also, with the water up to the motor mount. no dif. Funny though, the first few times I ran it, It would pump water for about 30 seconds THEN stop, and I couldn't get it to start pumping again. However now it doesn't seem to pump at all. And yes the pistons are moving. I have had the plugs out and turned it over to verify that, and the plugs are fairly black, and the top one is a little wetter than the bottom one

 

[dew2]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video

Get the carb kit clean the carb two times and blow with compressed air and installed,I would make sure the water tube is in the correct holes,and the impeller is seated with the pin in its slot.
Check spark and compression fire it again.The clean carb will help smoothout the sputtering.

 

[jasper60103]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video

I did check the key, It is ok, and it is definately turning. I am going to pull the carb next. unfortunaely I can't check to much until I get the water pump figured out, because I can't really run it.

I always bite the bullet and buy a water pump kit. At least you know all the parts are good then.

 

[Cofe]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video

Yes you can run the motor with the lower unit removed and a garden hose taped to the water tube. The picture below is a temporary set up I made to replace the water pump. A old toilet water supply copper tube with a extra rubber grommet placed on the end. The other end has a old brass water hose connection soldered to the tube.
You can also test the water pump with the lower unit removed. Get a piece of heater hose that will slip over the drive shaft splines, and a big drill bit that will fit in the other end. Use hose clamps to keep it tight, and place your lower unit under water and fire up the electric drill clamped to the drill bit and test it.

 

[15hpevinrude]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video

Thanks, I didn't think it would be an issue to run the motor without the bottom end on. I had a garden hose-to-3/8" hose barb adapter, and length of 3/8" hose that fit tight over the tube going to the bottom end. It pumped water fine. HOWEVER I bought a complete water pump kit today, so I am going to change it all over again anyway. I assume It should pump now and I won't have to to screw around with it. I also bought a carb kit today, and went through the carb. The carb was spotless inside, didn't find anything. BUT, so far the story I got with the boat is holding up. Dealer said carb was rebuilt when motor had fresh rings put in. UNFORTUNATELY I dropped the slow speed needle valve(AND OF COURSE IT LANDED RIGHT ON THE TIP) and bent the tip.. S.O.B. So I have to see about getting a new one tomorrow. I really think it is a lean misfire. And since nothing jumped out at me in the carb. I am going to replace the intake to reed and reed to crankcase gaskets since they are right there with the carb off. (To make sure its not sucking air), That would be my next step I think anyway if it still ran like crap, and I wouldn't have to pull the carb again!

 

[Mas]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video

You can spray mix down the carb and see if it evens out...if so, carb is a good guess. Also, try pumping the fuel bulb and see if it makes a difference.

Check compression & check spark?

Mas

 

[JohnnyFire]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video

Like Mas says check spark but with inline spark tester i bet your losing spark on one cylider intermintently.
try new plugs and check the keyway on the fly wheel whiel your in there check the points maybe dirty or not set or maybe came loose during first test from prev owner.

 

[15hpevinrude]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

A couple of questions answered, and a bunch more now....So I rebuilt the carb, Replaced the intake gaskets on both sides of the reeds. Got her all back together. Starts and runs. No backfiring. I really think it was sucking air around the intake gasket, because the carb was spotless inside, and I couldn't find anything.
BUT.....
It still would not idle down. It will run at a constant throttle no prob. (AND IS FINALLY PUMPING WATER GOOD) but when I try to get it to idle-she dies. SO I did a warm compression test and 110lbs in the Bottom cyl. and 75 in the top.. Not good.. This is where it gets wierd. I put some oil in the top cyl. and retest.. 100lbs...Crap...There is a ring prob. so I pull my comp. tester out and look at the end and it is all milky. So I grab a test light and look inside the plug hole and I can see white milky liquid all over the top of the piston? Water? Head gasket? then why did the comp. get better when I put oil in it? so I put it all back together and run it some more and I can see water puddleing down in the bottom of motor enclosure but I can't seem to find where its coming from? Anyway I run it for a while shut her down and comp. check again, this time 100lbs in bottom and 65 in top. they both went down. Look inside again witha light, and I can clearly see a bead of milky white froth running down the piston head on top, and I can see some water droplets beading off the top of the bot. piston. Bot plug is fairly clean with a black electrode, and top is perfectly clean. SO It sure looks like a head gasket issue. But Can it be the rings also shot? or will the comp. go up sometimes with oil? when its a head gasket?... I REALLY hope its just a head gasket.

 

[Mas]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

Could be you've got a hole in your exhaust baffle that's squirting water into the cylinders through the exhaust ports. Try running some seafoam to possibly loosen up coked rings after you find the cause of the water.

Mas

 

[kbait]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

If you didn't, change out the 5/32" hose from pump to carb. If it's crumbling inside (the wonders of ethanol-blended fuel) there's no screen to stop the debris from gunking up your clean carb.
Pull the head and inspect the gasket and cylinders. New head gasket after flat-file of the mating surfaces hopefully stops the 'froth' water intrusion and try it then. Torque the head properly, test run and re-check compression. Since it was supposedly re-ringed, it may take a break-in (richer fuel mix) to get the compression numbers better. Hopefully you end up even between the two cylinders. Good luck!

 

[Cofe]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

One + up for Mas suggestion. The exhaust baffle on the left side of the motor can have leaky gaskets, or a burnt baffle. This will let water into the cylinders and it wont idle hardly at all....

 

[15hpevinrude]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

I did check the fuel hose from the pump to the carb. It is in good condition inside and out. Also there was no trace of rubber dust or particles in the bowl, or anyware else. And yes I am still proceeding under the assumption this motor has not been broken-in and I mixed my fresh fuel at 30:1
THANKS

 

[15hpevinrude]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

I will try and check the exhaust baffle also, though I don't really know what I am loooking for. I am also a little concerned because, I am on a very tight budget to fix this motor, and I am prob. going to spend 50 bucks in gaskets checking all these things, to try it out, when there is a probability that the motor may have to come all apart and I might have to replace all these gaskets again.

 

[Mas]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

Here is diagram:
http://www.marineengine.com/parts/j...rer=Evinrude&section=Cylinder+&+Crankcase

The baffle is #24...be wary however...it's easy to break those small screws. The baffle would cause a water issue...but not a compression issue. Follow compression troubles first.

I would pull the head first to have a look..75 psi is just too low! I missed the "re-ring" part so coke/carbon shouldn't be at issue. Is it possible that it was re-ringed over bad cylinders?

Mas

 

[15hpevinrude]

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

Re: Help 1980 35HP johnson runs like crap, with video UPDATE

So today I put some Sea Foam in the cyl.'s too see if there might be a carbon issue. I put the muffs on to fire it up, and the backfiring was back, and It was not pumping water again. Crap. SO I loose the muffs, put it back in the tank, and Voila. runs fine again. and pumping water again. I guess my boat doesn't like muffs. I ran it for a while, ran pretty good, shuts off, fires right up when I hit the key, but when I try to idle it down, or put it in gear it stalls out. Re-checked comp. still 60lbs. in top cyl. Looks like its got to come apart. What I am curious about is. If I buy a complete engine gasket set, can I: Grease the exhaust baffle gaskets to try it out, and be able to re-use them again if It has to come apart again?. AND Can I reuse The new head gasket if it turns out it is not a head gasket prob. and has to come apart? Oh and I should add that I found where the water that was pooling in the bottom of the engine conpartment was coming from. It is leaking around the tell tale fitting. Just dripping from behind the fitting. Is that an o ring?