HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

[sumrsalt]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

This was a repower in no way associated with GRADY-WHITE. The "OMC 225" we replaced was a "20" inch shaft and so that is what we replaced it with. The exhaust ports sit at or very near the waterline. Can you tell me when this notice was issued and who was it issued to (i.e. dealers only). Thanks, Sumrsalt.

 

[nevd]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

OBMD,<br /><br />I may be missing the point but I can't see how a porous exhaust manifold will make the engine more likely to ingest water through the ports.<br /><br />Sumrsalt has indicated the bottom cylinders are at water level. Unless the motor is always running when it is not trimmed up, then water can come into cylinders via exhaust port when ever the engine stops with a bottom cylinder which has both inlet and exhaust valves open ie around near TDC on the non firing stroke. I would think this would happen 1 in every 10 or 20 times the engine is stopped.<br /><br />Can someone therefore explain to me why this engine is not already badly corroded in the bottom cylinders?

 

[chuckdd]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

I'm no expert but heard the motor should be kept in a down right position when not in use. Could this have anything to do with water seeping somewhere it shouldn't? ... 'tilted up and flushed with fresh water after every use'. Water drains out of my BF90 when lowering motor after hauling back from the river. Also, I had a spark plug strip threads a year ago. I thought the PO had over tightened them at one point. Used a perma-coil / heli-coil and that fixed it up fine.

 

[sumrsalt]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

Gentelman, still no word from my dealer. The "notice" from Honda was "not" followed when this engine was hung. Had this been the case my exhaust would be five inches above the waterline and not snorkeling. I stated earlier that the exhaust was at the waterline, not the bottom cylinders. The exhaust ports are situated about 3 to 4 inches below the bottom cylinders. We encountered the first "problem" oxygen sensor at 7 hours of use, 1 hour of which was a test run by the dealer. My question now is when was this notice released? It took several very lively conversations with Honda customer service and 21 days before I was told what was wrong. Hondas fix was replacement of the oxygen sensor with another one, "known to be defective". Honda did not have a functional fix at that time. I spoke with one very nice customer service rep. who stated that her last phone call was with an irate "BF225" purchaser, who was being arrested at his dealer while he was talkin to her. <br />Honda did come through with another sensor, many weeks later, which lasted until 130 hours. I don't think my dealer was informed of any notice. I think the "notice" was a result of the problems we first encountered. My dealer is a 3rd generation family owned business who have been hanging engines for 60 years, had they been made aware of this I would not have a problem. The ingestion of water into this engine has worried me to the point of even using those "ear plugs on a string" to stop-up the exhaust ports while the boat is slipped. If Hondas "notice" was released after my engine was installed, I should have atleast been informed by them of a possible problem. The performance of this BF225 was astonishing when all systems were go. The perfect compliment to my "SUMRSALT".

 

[chuckdd]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

Do you have a picture of how this sits in the water? <br /><br />ChuckD

 

[gss036]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

Your dealer/installer should be going to bat for you here as they did a bad installation and Honda should make good on the defect. Be nice and talk sweet to them. Don't even think of mentioning a lawyer or legal action at this point as they would probably close the book and tell you they will see you in court.

 

[tommays]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

1. the motor has to be installed with the A/V plate at the correct height for the hull<br /><br />If it sits to low because its to heavy for the boat that is and install mistake NOT a defect <br /><br />Its why you pay and "expert" to rig it in the first place <br /><br /><br />tommays

 

[sumrsalt]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

The boat is rated for a 235 hp engine. The hull line and A/V plate match up very well. By all appearences everything is correct. The installer is a full line authorized Honda dealer, does that rate as "expert". Sorry, no pictures, I am usually having to much fun running the boat to take pictures. Sumrsalt.

 

[OBMD]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

I have a copy of the mounting instructions. Dated 8-03. Leave me your email address and I will send it to any interested parties. Honda both mails and have this info available to dealers on their dealer intranet site. No excuses for dealer not to have this info.

nevd: A porous casting on the manifold (port) that holds the O2 sensor will allow enough water into the exhaust side of the manifold to damage the O2 sensor. Not a common problem, but it happens.

ensign: Rigging of the motor is the dealers responsibility, not Honda's. Dealers are independant businesses and Honda has no control over them. Honda supplies info on how rigging "should be done", but they (and all the other manufactures) can only suggest. If any lawsuit action would be taken, it should be against the rigging dealer.

 

[sumrsalt]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

I have a copy of the mounting instructions. Dated 8-03. Leave me your email address and I will send it to any interested parties. Honda both mails and have this info available to dealers on their dealer intranet site. No excuses for dealer not to have this info.

nevd: A porous casting on the manifold (port) that holds the O2 sensor will allow enough water into the exhaust side of the manifold to damage the O2 sensor. Not a common problem, but it happens.

ensign: Rigging of the motor is the dealers responsibility, not Honda's. Dealers are independant businesses and Honda has no control over them. Honda supplies info on how rigging "should be done", but they (and all the other manufactures) can only suggest. If any lawsuit action would be taken, it should be against the rigging dealer.

OBMD, My email is " sumrsalt @ verizon. net" and thank you .

 

[HMSC]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

Quote - "I have a copy of the mounting instructions. Dated 8-03. Leave me your email address and I will send it to any interested parties.". E-mail hmsc@knology.net. Thanks in advance.

 

[OBMD]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

I have been without computer for awhile. I am back on-line but unable to attach the document. I will attempt again this weekend.
Have your dealer call the Honda tech-line and ask for Jeff. He should be able to fax them a copy.
Honda has a new exhaust pipe kit to address the issue. Have your dealer ask about it.

 

[sumrsalt]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

Long time since I've posted anything on my problem-child. After several more visits to the dealer and many calls to Honda, Honda sent a regional customer relations manager to see me. Mr. Richard Veronese came to my house, looked at my boat and said that this engine should have never been mounted on my boat. He said that a 25 inch shafted engine should have been mounted on my 20 inch stern and raised up off the stern. He also said that this engine as set-up would indeed ingest water through the exhaust. Honda refused to do anything for us as my warranty had run out.

Tomorrow morning I am going to trade in my 20 inch shaft bf225 (2002) engine with only 160 hours on it to the tune of a twelve thousand loss. Every other dealer in the country is fully aware of these problems but Honda wont own up to the issues. Funny how that works. If you own one of these engines and have problem do not hesitate to contact Mr. Veronese by phone # (678) 339-2600 or email him, Richard_veronese@AHM.Honda.com and be sure to tell him "sumrsalt" sent you.

 

[zzzzz]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

tell your dealer to look at Honda's outboard bulletin #56-"check engine light comes on"...it is about the 200's and 225's with water entering exhaust...some units out of warranty are eligible if your dealer approaches Honda correctly(going to "bat" for the customer)

 

[sumrsalt]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

ZZZZZ,
Our dealer refused us as did Honda. We are replacing the engine as we speak at a major loss, but we will once again be able to enjoy our boat. Because of this experience we will never purchase another Honda product of any kind.

 

[hondon]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

This is something Honda is aware of and your dealer should be as well.Service Bulletin #62 if memory serves me.There is also an update on the exhaust horns associated with that bulletin but you are out of warranty and most dealers are reluctant to take on that repair because Honda does not compensate adequate time to do the repair.Honda has however been cooperative in upfitting unit out of warranty so far with me.They will do it once, after that they consider it an installation issue.Good luck.

 

[sumrsalt]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

I would like to pose a scenario to you as fellow boaters. Lets say I am coming in from the ocean after a day of fishing. While attempting to navigate the inlet in a strong following sea, my Honda BF225 stalls in a critical situation due to water ingestion through the exhaust. My boat is turned hard to port and swamps, all hands go overboard.

This exact scenario was posed to the Honda customer relation manager, face to face at my home. His response was silence. I contend that Honda has known about this problem since the end of the boating season 2002. Have there been any accidents similar to scenario, has anyone been endangered? At what point do profits negate responsibility. Problems are never solved by hiding them.

Sumrsalt.

 

[gss036]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

I think that would be something to speak w/ a good lawyer about.

I tried to enter Richard_veronese@AHM.Honda.com in my e-mail address book for reference and it tells me to enter a valid e-mail. Is that the right address. I wanted to keeo as a reference since I have a new 225 Honda coming in the next week or so.

 

[sumrsalt]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

gss036, That address is correct, it is possible that he is no longer with Honda. I have conversed with him since late 07'. Sumrsalt.

 

[gss036]

Re: HELP!! Honda 225 Saltwater Entering via Exhaust?

Thanks , I did send an e-mail labeled test, didn't come back by the mailer demon, so must be good. Don't know why my Comcast address book would say it was not valid.