Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

[orca]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

G'day. As a mechanic myself, and the first to run to the defence of outboard repairers I can only say the it looks like your Mechanic has stuffed up. The Yam has a warning system to show when the oil is low, so I reckon that this is not the problem. Maybe tha mechanic did not bleed the oiling system when the motor was reassemble.<br />What was the failure with your first powerhead, It is no good replacing a powerhead if you do not fix the cause of the first failure.<br />The oil feed lines on the Yam can get blocked causing oil starvation to one cylinder, were the oil lines cleaned out before re asssembly.<br />80 Psi sounds low but I am not a Yam expert<br />Contact Yam and tell them about your problem, do not go back to your old repairer, ask Yam if they know about a good alternative repairer in your area, get the alternative repairer to give a report on the motor and then return to the first guy with a copy of the report, do not get agro with your first repairer but explain the facts. If you discuss the problem as mature adults then I am sure that your problem can be solved. Good luck

 

[Sea Mitch]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

Well, I spoke to the supervisor (right!) He said when there's only 1/4 tank of oil in the reservoir, while rocking around out there, I could get some air in the line. Oil's pretty thick. I don't think it splashes around in there so easily that when it's down to 1/4 of a tank (about one gallon) it's going to blow the engine with no warning. I've driven my car with a gallon left in the tank and it didn't miss a beat due to gas not making it to the engine. <br /><br />Anyway, he suggested I put oil directly in the gas at 100:1 and run it for about 10 hours and recheck the compression. Maybe the rings were dry and if there was no damage to the cylinder I might get the compression back. Is this logical?<br /><br />Also, I asked about why the compression was so low (80)to begin with on the rebuilt. The original was about 110. His answer: rebuilts can be anywhere between 80 and 110 (so mine happens to be at the bottom?). Does this sound logical? Does anyonw know if this is true?

 

[Toontime]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

Danger, Danger, Will Robinson! 100:1 sounds way too lean for a newer motor. Is that in addition to your 50:1 oil injection or instead of? Low lubrication caused your problem, don't repeat it. More oil is better than less. Overall, an expensive lesson in trust. Never take another's word that your boat is ready to go......always double check or as my son said, "What plug?"

 

[Sea Mitch]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

thanks toontime, it's in addition to the 50:1! A little extra oil to lubricate the rings. This is assuming my injection system is working, which might be the problem to begin with!

 

[ob]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

If your mechanic says that running 1/4 level on oil tank would have a tendancy to slosh and get system air bound then my question to him would be why would you not top it off before taking my 7 bills and say it was good to go?Fuel should have been mixed 50:1 until oil reservoir consumption could be verified

 

[orca]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

G'day Again. The lower oil tank is only a resevoir to keep the top tank filled. If the oil in the lower tank is "slosshing around" then it will still keep the top tank filled. When I do a rebuild on any motor I reccomend to the customer to add extra oil at 50:1 to his fuel tank for two reasons<br />1. You need extra oil in your motor while running in<br />2. there is oil in the fuel in case the oil injection system is not working.<br />I always recommend to the customer that he should check the oil leval in the lower tank during the break in period and make sure that the motor is using oil.<br />In my experiance the compressions on a motor will rise after a rebuild or new powerhead, as the new rings bed in they will seal better

 

[durk187]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

I have 2 ways of responding to this:<br /><br />First way: (if you ran out of oil)<br /><br />"Admittily not every time i got gas" + "I looked in to the res. and saw some oil, put 2 quarts in and the warning light went off" = $14,000 of you being a idoit. <br /><br />If you were running it for a while with the warning light on, you need to sell your boat because you are to dumb to own one(and you are 14,000 poorer).<br /><br />2nd way: (if it had oil and you had no idea of the problem)<br /><br />Someone needs to light a fire under your *** .<br /><br /> Who owns this service shop? Screw the supervisor, the only job he has is to blow you off. If you go into the owners office with all the points addressed above. Expecilly the points:<br /><br />1)That the inital tank of gas should've been premix for testing purposes, incase the injection is bad. <br /><br />2)Why did they not top off your oil tank or warn you it was low? (you can probaly squeze that in to a $7000 tab)<br /><br />3)When you got it rebuilt, assuming you dont run the oil dry with horns blazing, was there not a warning that the oil was low again? If no, and you engine has a warning system. Is it functioning?<br /><br />4)The oil shoshing is a load of crap. If you get air at a 1/4 tank that is somthing they should have fixed because it is not correct. <br /><br />If causing a (respectible) scene in the owners office isnt enough. Wright a letter, CC your attorny and the BBB.

 

[durk187]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

 

[Andrew the Aussie]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

G'day First Boat,<br /><br />I've been having troubles with my 1993 V6 Yamaha, too:<br /><br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=018544 <br /><br />Hope it all works out for you, bud.

 

[Andrew the Aussie]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

Hey First Boat, I just found this new post, over on the Yamaha board :<br /><br />"I bought a brand new 1999 yamaha 150 HPDI and it ran great until around 26 hours and the powerhead blew, problem was a piston went. Yamaha replaced the whole motor. The second motor ran great and after 20 so hours again the powerhead blew, this time the problem was a connecting rod and bearing shattered. I was told I was the only guy in Canada to have problems with this motor. Yamaha said they would replace the powerhead. I decided to return the whole boat and went back to an inboard."<br /><br /> http://www.yamahaoutboardparts.com/wwwboard/messages/906.html <br /><br />cheers<br />Andrew

 

[butlp]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

Andrew,<br />My brother-in-law bought a new Yamaha V MAX 150, duel prop in 1998, I think (non HPDI). At the end of the second season with less than 50 hours on the motor he had one bad piston and scored cylinder. He negotiated some sort of deal with either Yamaha Canada or his dealer and paid a (relatively) small amount to trade up to a 2001 V MAX 150 dual prop. <br />He too was told he was the only one in Canada to have trouble with these motors!<br />I will get the full details of what happened from him the next time I see him.<br />The new motor seems to be running well although he only puts a few hours a season on it. Unfortunately, he hit a rock this summer and totalled the lower unit, those twin props ain't cheap! <br />Peter

 

[Andrew the Aussie]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

First, I'm turning up some interesting stuff via a simple Google search. Check it out :<br /><br />Big John (199.245.232.12) from TEXAS says 225 Yamaha.....Beware<br />Be careful with the 225 Yamaha. I know of at least three people off the top of my head who have blown the powerhead on their 225hp Yamaha's. One person is about to receive his 4th! From what I understand, Yamaha is having problems with the 225 that they do not have with the 200's or the 250's. <br /><br /> http://www.wmi.org/saltfish/multi/texas/T11643.htm <br /><br />Wonder how much of this is going on, around the world? Regards, Andrew

 

[Andrew the Aussie]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

From the Yamaha board:<br /><br />Posted by Captain Paul Retherford (198.31.179.48) on July 22, 2002 at 12:53:05:<br /><br />I am looking for anyone who has blown a 1988 150 horsepower powerhead and the suspected cause of the failure. I also am looking for anyone who has blown a 1990 Yamaha 250 hp and the suspected failure. <br /><br />My father has blown two 250 hp Yahama powerheads in less than 200 hours of fishing-same engine. The used powerhead we received looks as if the same failure happened to it. What we are thinking is that this problem is common.<br /><br />Any help would be appreciated!!! <br /><br /> http://www.yamahaoutboardparts.com/wwwboard/messages/727.html <br /><br />Bless the Internet!

 

[Andrew the Aussie]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

It looks like there's a whole lot of 150-225HP Yammie owners out there who are having major troubles and are seeking help on the Net. But they're spread across so many boards no-one knows their problems are happening to others. Check this poor guy out: <br /><br />2002 VMAX 225. SINCE MAY 8TH, 2002: 4 SETS OF SPARK PLUGS, GALS OF OIL I LOST COUNT, 3 FUEL PUMP DIAPHRAMS, OIL PUMP ADJUSTMENT, SPEEDO TUBE IN FOOT REPAIRED, EXHAUST HOUSINGS BOLTS REPLACED, ALTERNATOR STATOR ASSEMBLY, VOLTAGE REGULATOR, O2 SENSOR, COMPUTER AND I LOST COUNT OF HOURS THAT HAVE BEEN SPENT ON TESTING OTHER SENSORS, ETC ETC ETC. IT STILL WONT CRANK AFTER IT SITS FOR 15 TO 20 MINUTES AFTER IT IS HOT. YOU HAVE TO HOLD THE THROTTLE OPEN AND KEEP CRANKING, FINALLY IT WILL START. HAVE WROTE TO YAMAHA WITH NO RESPONSE. EVER TRIED CALLING THEM? YOU GET ON PERMANENT HOLD. MY DEALER HAS FAXED THEM, NO RESPONSE. I HAVE BEEN IN THE AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR BUSINESS FOR OVER 30 YEARS AND HAVE OWNED MY OWN BUSINESS FOR 24 YRS. IF I TREATED MY CUSTOMERS LIKE I AM GETTING TREATED I WOULD HAVE BEEN OUT OF BUSINESS A LONG TIME AGO. I HAVE ALWAYS HAD OMC ENGINES IN THE PAST AND YES THEY HAVE HAD THERE PROBLEMS BUT I ALWAYS GOT THEM FIXED IN A TIMELY MANNER. I DONT KNOW ABOUT THE REST OF YOU YAMAHA OWNERS BUT IF I HAD BEEN TOLD ( IN THESE DAYS AND TIMES WITH THE TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE ) WHEN I BOUGHT THIS YAMAHA IT WOULD USE 35 TO 40 TO 1 OIL AND I WOULD HAVE TO REPLACE THE SPARK PLUGS EVERY 3 TO 4 WEEKS YOU CAN BET YOUR ___ I WOULD NOT HAVE BOUGHT IT.<br /><br /> http://pub5.ezboard.com/fbbcboardfrm11.showMessage?topicID=70.topic

 

[Andrew the Aussie]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

The stories about these mid-90s Yamaha V6s just keep on coming. I'll have an amazing one to post here on Tuesday, from an Aussie commercial operator, (who must remain anonymous) whose 225s brought him so much trouble Yamaha eventually sent a Japanese engineer to visit:<br /><br />=========================================<br />Yamaha 175hp v6 1993<br /><br />Posted by Paul (62.252.224.4) on August 17, 2002 at 19:19:55:<br /><br />Hi - I have managed to seize this engine yet somehow escaped serious engine damage ... or so I think. This could have been "heat nip" and prevented serious engine melt down. Engine runs fine now and still performs the same, plugs look perfect now (although one was grey immediately post seizure but cleaned up well). <br /><br />Could anyone suggest why this happened? The impeller and water pressure seem to be strong. Perhaps the thermostats have gone, but where would they be located and how easy is this to fix? My other theory is the trim was too high and starved the engine of water.<br /><br />This engine also has the same pattern of decreasing engine power too - this could be linked to the varying engine temperatures?<br /><br />Any help and experience would be greatly appreciated!<br /><br /> http://www.yamahaoutboardparts.com/wwwboard/messages/856.html

 

[Andrew the Aussie]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

The problem stories just keep on coming:<br />=====================================<br /><br />Hi Andrew<br />I did have a failure on a '97 150hp Yamaha. Small ends went and gudgeon pins were excessively worn after 800 hours. Did the repairs myself and have had no problems since (300 hrs) Never even spoke to Yamaha about it, but the local dealers had no explanation and were quite baffled by the amount of wear on the gudgeon pins. The crank was fine though.

 

[Andrew the Aussie]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

If anyone wants their Yamaha V6 story posted here, without having to open a forum account, please send it to me at stelco@msn.com.au. I'll repost it without mentioning the sender's details. Regards to all, A.<br />=======================================<br />Dear Andrew,<br /><br />Funny thing, we replaced a motor in 2001, which was a 1997/8 model 175 hp Salt Water Series Yamaha, which for no real reason, blew a piston. We had just had the unit serviced as usual, noticed a drop in performance, had it checked out and one of the barrels and pistons had gone plus the crank.... Quote for repair was $8000.00 (Australian), I ended up buying a new motor and got $2500.00 trade back on the old through my service provider.

 

[Andrew the Aussie]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

SUBJECT: # 14: 1999 Yamaha VMAX 150<br /><br />Submitted by Ray J (209.99.127.107) from TEXAS on 2/2/00 8:36:00 PM<br /><br />Color preference: Black<br /><br />Size preference: 150 hp<br /><br />Where does this product work best: Parked in the driveway<br /><br />When does this product work best: Whenever not in the water..doesnt like it<br /><br />Any techniques or tips you want to include: Buy a Susuki. Have had this engine for a year and been back in the shop many many times. This time for a new powerhead. Dealer asked Yamaha to replace the engine but they said no. Two years left on warranty..FOR SALE!!!<br />=======================================<br /><br />3/2/00 8:20:00 PM Ray J (209.99.124.252) from TEXAS says Yamahammer<br />Thanks for the input. In fact, the dealer gave me the number to call Yamama along with a POC. They gave me the company line.."we will repair in accordance with the warranty". Guess thats hard to argue with. This is my second Yamaha..first was great but that was few years back. I agree to a certain extent that maybe I was very unlucky..but since I have been relating my experiance on the web..I was surprised to read many horror storys about new yamahas. Even a guy working at the dealership told me he has seen engines with bad powerheads right out of the box..owell, you know what they say, spend your money and take your chances.<br />=========================================<br /><br /> http://www.wmi.org/saltfish/evaluations/T14.htm

 

[Andrew the Aussie]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

"On the run back to Fourchon Saturday afternoon, we had the misfortune of totally destroying the powerhead on one of our Yamaha's. This is the "worst of days" part that I referred to earlier. I still don't know exactly what happened, except that we were cruising at 4000 rpm, the engine had run perfectly all day, and all of a sudden the powerhead disintegrated inside the cowling. We were left with a handful of shrapnel and a baseball size hole in the side of the block. I still have all the confidence in the world in Yamaha, as they have promised to have us up and running by the 12th of August. That's okay with me, after this weekend I may need some time off!" <br /><br /> http://www.rodnreel.com/marshmasters/Reports.asp

 

[b.gagnon]

Re: Help! Mechanic says need 2nd Pwrhd in 1 mo.

I was always told that after a rebuild, or on a new engine to run dubble the premix and to not exceed 3500rpm. The rings have to set. did you do this?