Hot wires

[Machino]

Hey all,
I have some issues with some wiring I recently did to my boat. I have looked all over for help, hopefully one of you could help. Wires around the toggle switches are hot to the touch and I am wondering if this is a problem and if so, how can it be fixed. I have a 12V battery in the back of my boat. It powers a trolling motor, depth finder, lighting and an AC adapter. The trolling motor and depth finder run directly from the terminals of the battery. These wires are fine. For the lighting and AC adapter, wires run from the terminals to the 2 toggle switches with a 20 amp (it accepts 3-30 amps fuses) fuse before the first power switch. The power toggle gives power to the AC adapter and the light toggle switch. The AC adapter is idle if nothing is plugged into it. Turn the light toggle on and bow and stern lights come on.

Basically, the wires are hot to the touch around the toggles. I have no ground since it is an aluminum boat. What do you all think?

Dean

 

[jriegle04]

Re: Hot wires

sounds like you need a larger gauge wire. if the wires are to small they over heat.

 

[Splat]

Re: Hot wires

Yea sounds like the gauge wire is too small.

Hard to tell without a little more information. Even with the Inverter "idle" they do draw considerable current. And for most of them to work correctly should be wired directly to the battery with like a #8 wire. How big in the power inverter?

Your feed wire going to your switches, if fused with a 30a fuse should also be a #8 or more than like a tad smaller a #10 wire.

This issue could also be caused by the switch being underated for current your drawing. If drawing too much current the contacts head up in the switch and thus use the surrounding wire as a heat sink.

Bill

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Hot wires

What do you mean by "I have no ground as I have an aluminum boat!" I hope you are not grounding everything to the hull! Explain please!

 

[Machino]

Re: Hot wires

Well, this seems like where I'll gain some experience. I wired everything with 16 guage wire and the toggles are 20amp. I didn't wire the AC adapter which is 12V to the battery either. So, you guys telling me I have to rip the wiring out? I want it done right, so I guess I'll get to work.

Dean

 

[Bifflefan]

Re: Hot wires

Hey all,

I have no ground since it is an aluminum boat. What do you all think?

Dean

Why dont you have a ground????
did i miss something in science class?
Alum is a good conductor, dont belive me, take a batt and hook up jumper cables to it then touch them to the boat.

Oh yea,, the wires are too small.

 

[Machino]

Re: Hot wires

Silvertip

I wasn't sure where to put the ground, the boat is aluminum. I have it running back to to the battery. Pardon my ignorance, I'm just trying to get a 250$ gem up and running. My boat is also hot!

Dean

 

[flargin]

Re: Hot wires

Ground: I think you may have done it correctly...
Unlike a car, you don't screw the 'negative' side into the frame and let it get back to the battery. you always use a "ground Return" wire. I.e. you take wire to and from the components you want to use... never use the framing from the boat.
Why you ask? as the electricity goes through the hull, it will start to erode the metal, eventually you will have a hole in your boat (electrolysis)
Another note, you do want to take a "bonding wire" and bond the negative to the boat, but due to above, this is not a ground strap in a car.

Inverter:
you need a larger wire, even if you have a really small 300w inverter you need more wire. Remember Watts = volts * amps. 300 Watts = 12v * 25 Amps. Adding in an inefficiency, you are at 30 Amps... to run 30 amps 15 feet, you need 8 gauge wire. You are running 16 gauge which is good for 5 amps... that is why it is hot. If you pull too much power, the wire can catch fire. This does need to be fixed quickly.

let us know what inverter you have and we can figure the correct wire for you.

 

[Machino]

Re: Hot wires

Thanks for all the responses.
Flargin, I have a 12V power inverter. My buddy has lots of 10 gauge wire. It seems beefy, will this work? Its only about 6 feet to the switches from the battery and 3 feet from the switches to the lights. I was planning on hooking up the power inverter straight to the battery this time with its own switch. Do the wires from the switches to the lights also have to be 10 or 8 gauge? They have something like 16 coming out of them stock. Again thanks for help guys.

Dean

 

[Splat]

Re: Hot wires

We know it's a 12v inverter. We need to know the output wattage.

Bill

 

[flargin]

Re: Hot wires

lights typically are fine with 16 gauge, unless you are trying to make your boat look something like Las Vega$ at night.

The AC inverter is your problem.
On the inverter someplace, usually in very big letters you will see something like "1000 Watts" see the attached picture for an example:

Depending on that detail, we can help with the inverter configuration. these new inverters are getting larger and larger, and the power demand is amazing on some of them. depending on size you may need larger switches and larger fuses or a circuit breaker.

To try to help explain some of the size needed.
I have a 1000 W inverter and I have it routed with 0 gauge wire. the wire in 10 gauge is about the size of a pencil lead, 0 gauge is about the size of a full pencil. For the distance I have installed it, I am supposed to use 00 gauge (an even larger wire size) So even my wiring is not large enough. and I have even limited the power with a 50Amp circuit breaker, making my inverter limited to around 600W.

50 Amps is enough power to weld metal. if you want to weld metal... that is cool, but on a boat, that usually results in fire... so you want to be somewhat cautious

Let us know what you have and we will help you figure it out.

 

[Machino]

Re: Hot wires

Okay, I looked at the inverter, it has nothing on it other than 12V. The wire says
E176095 RJ(backwards) AWM 1015 VW-1 105C(Degrees celcius) 600V 16AWG Or CRJ AWM 1 A 105C 600V FT1 16AWG UNIRISE. Does this tell anyone anything? My misunderstanding comes from the wire itself. It came with about 10 feet of wire that looks to be about 14 if not 16 gauge.

 

[wellsc1]

Re: Hot wires

If the wire is too small, two things can happen. One, the wire will heat up like a light heating element. Two, the voltage drop across the wire can be enough to result in less than minimum voltage for the inverter to work.

Now, let's focus where the heat is... at the connector on the switch. Either the switch contacts are heating up or the connection to the switch is loose. Loose connections or switch contacts have resistance. Current (amps) flowing through resistance (ohms) creates heat (watts). Watts = Resistance times the current squared.

 

[flargin]

Re: Hot wires

Okay, I looked at the inverter, it has nothing on it other than 12V. The wire says
E176095 RJ(backwards) AWM 1015 VW-1 105C(Degrees celcius) 600V 16AWG Or CRJ AWM 1 A 105C 600V FT1 16AWG UNIRISE. Does this tell anyone anything? My misunderstanding comes from the wire itself. It came with about 10 feet of wire that looks to be about 14 if not 16 gauge.

nothing else? little suspicious. 16 gauge wire, unless that is a 50 watt inverter, that wire is too small. Pitch it. here is where I would go.

take your 10 gauge wire, get a 30A fuse (you should always have a fuse on the + line, near the battery), wire it in, putting a switch rated for 30Amps somplace between the fuse and the inverter. Use a different color 10 gauge wire for the return to the negative side. (use black for return, Red preferred for supply)

Regardless of the amount of power the inverter can support, you will be limited to about 300 watts.

this way your fuse protects your wire from overheating/shorting, and the wire is big enough to give you enough to run most things you would want to plug into your inverter.

 

[Machino]

Re: Hot wires

The plot thickens. I haven't even started with the inverter. I have a 30amp fuse right at the battery going to the main power switch (10 gauge wire) with a return. That goes to the light switch (10 gauge), and lights have 16 gauge wire. I'm blowing a fuse every time I turn it on.

 

[flargin]

Re: Hot wires

The plot thickens. I haven't even started with the inverter. I have a 30amp fuse right at the battery going to the main power switch (10 gauge wire) with a return. That goes to the light switch (10 gauge), and lights have 16 gauge wire. I'm blowing a fuse every time I turn it on.

blowing fuse = too much power = too many electrical pieces or a short.

something is drawing too much power.

Ok so lets step back.

has this always been happening? or was it someething that just started to happen when you began working on it.

If the latter, pull whatever you just put on, and see if that stops the fuse problem. if so, start figuring out what the problem was on that line. If not, then start pulling/turning off other things connected to figure out where the power draw is going.


btw, as you go from the 10g wire to the 16g wire, you need to add another fuse. you use the fuse to protect to the wire diameter.

the best way is a fuse box.

 

[Machino]

Re: Hot wires

Thanks for your help everyone. Tomorrow I'm going fishing. To hell with the electrical....for now.