How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

[sasto]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

still get the news involved, id like to hear the morons try to talk their way out of this one.that is just plain wrong and maybe illegal on their part.sorry if i sound a little harsh but its just plain stupidity and wrong!

The law says a vessel washed ashore must be left alone for fourteen days to give them time to locate the owner.

In your case, the first sheriff was wrong, and I bet if you drilled down on it, the other LEO's and the guy claiming ownership weren't 100% right. Since you asked, they had to say, "put it back." I'd like to think that if you didn't, but still made the motor available down the line to whoever has the best claim, you wouldn't be in trouble. Might even get reimbursed for your plywood.

Until the laws are updated and coordinated, the absurd will be the results of following the law. But who is going to take on the project to revise the laws, and what legislator is going to care?

I read your post a few times, Home Cookin'. It all makes sence. According to salvage law, yes, the first Sheriff was legally worng but morally right. I was going to hold the items from the boat, in locked storage for fourteen days. I would gladly.....with pride....return them to the rightful owner. I offered it to any orginization involved to hold if they wished. They refused. What is a shame now is nobody gets anything, except Mother Nature.

A really recent example of the (non-sense) "law of salvage": http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/neviu...er-seeks-200K-award-3934214.php#ixzz28v2Girjp

That's a crazy story, saumon. What ever happened to good Samariton?

CRAP! So close, yet so very far :/ Sorry about the bum news SASTO.

Yeh, kfa. The bummer is not that I couldn't keep the engine and other items, it's that all is a total waste now to anybody. I would have gladly done this for nothing to help save the enviroment. If this was in some island in the Carib, the whole village would have gotten together and removed the wasted boat and hazzards, then salvage what was good.

I was going to ask if you actually could take it legally but after reading the posts I see that the question has been answered.

LK

Yup, Alwhite, after the fourteen days are over.

I have really stirred the pot around here.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

your situation and the San Francisco story show how the laws of salvage, while sound in principle and perhaps in practice ni the olden days, fall apart in many applications today. The idea is that if a person rescues an object of value, the owner should pay him for his expenses and risk. Makes sense for a freighter, trawler or yacht; not always for an old pleasure boat. Especially when you start putting a price tag on it.

In Sasto's case, the rules (14 day stand-still) made no sense when the boat was doomed in the next tide. The 14 day rule would make sense if the boat were moored safely or even appeared on a trailer. The problem is that laws don't have flexibility built in, and no one can "legally" exercise good judgment.

The guy in SF is just greedy. As I related, I saw a similar situation on the Eastern Shore where a good samaritan turned bad. An admiralty case in federal court is going to cost him a pretty penny, for sure. BTDT.

 

[saumon]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

The guy in SF is just greedy. As I related, I saw a similar situation on the Eastern Shore where a good samaritan turned bad. An admiralty case in federal court is going to cost him a pretty penny, for sure. BTDT.

I wouldn't be surprised if the guy did it at first for nothing other than a grateful thanks, and was approached afterwards by a lawyer who convinced him he had a great case. Typical scenario...

 

[sasto]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

.

In Sasto's case, the rules (14 day stand-still) made no sense when the boat was doomed in the next tide. The 14 day rule would make sense if the boat were moored safely or even appeared on a trailer. The problem is that laws don't have flexibility built in, and no one can "legally" exercise good judgment.
.

Another good point, Home Cookin'.

Many boats have broke their mooring here on the ICW. Usually they can be tied up to a dock or set another anchor for them. They don't usually become a hazzard to the enviroment and can be saved. We are working on trying to get some things changed. I have some good people working on this, including a couple Law Enforcement agencies.

I took a walk down the beach yesterday to check her out. The Yamaha is missing the cowling and is now burried in the sand. The 21' CC is broken up in several pieces. Many parts have gone to sea. I hope somebody dosen't get hurt.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

Another good point, Home Cookin'.

Many boats have broke their mooring here on the ICW. Usually they can be tied up to a dock or set another anchor for them. They don't usually become a hazzard to the enviroment and can be saved. We are working on trying to get some things changed. I have some good people working on this, including a couple Law Enforcement agencies.

I took a walk down the beach yesterday to check her out. The Yamaha is missing the cowling and is now burried in the sand. The 21' CC is broken up in several pieces. Many parts have gone to sea. I hope somebody dosen't get hurt.

If you are working on changing the laws, look into two aspects:
1. some way to distinquish a commercial vessel and a recreational vessel. The rules for one don't fit the other, but most of the laws are old and designed for commercial; folks just took care of their own for the few recreational vessels. I know something about them and they work for ships but not boats.

2. Some way to build in an emergency/imminent peril/imminent waste situation. I bet if you look into old admiralty law such an exception exists: picture a ghost ship in the doldrums v. one about to be dashed upon the rocks. Perhaps say that you can rescue the vessel (as you did) to remove it from imminent peril but once safe from harm, you have to "hold" it for the 14 days. It will get more complicated after than but it's a start.

BTW we had a 70' fishing trawler wash up on our island a couple years ago; it's still there, abadoned. It was fully rigged. Don't ask me how I know.

While I don't want someone getting hurt, that may be what it takes to get the dumbass sheriff to see that he created physical danger instead of protecting public safety by enforcing a bone-head rule.

 

[sasto]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

Again, some very good points, Home Cookin'. I will pass these on to the person I have dealing with this. He will appreciate this.

As of yesterday the boat is no longer on the beach. I hope she is in Davy Jones's Locker and not floating aimlessly around at sea. The engine can't be seen anymore either. I guess it is burried under the sand. I hope some child dosen't start digging around and get cut.

Most of this situation was caused by one person. A part time resident that lives in one of the high rise condos.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

Well the lesson to be learned is to ALWAYS have a dolly in your trunk and to act first and ask questions later Next time just send out an iboats beacon and whichever members are closest will drop what they're doing and come lend a hand. Not to worry, they'll be plenty more where those came from. Shoot, you might even get dibs on one of the new homemade subs "the Colombian navy" is fond of using nowadays. How are you feeling btw SASTO?

 

[bonz_d]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

My question on this outcome is what of the environmental impact these things cause? Fuel, oil, batteries, wire and fiberglass scraps all over the place. Guess it only matters if they are auto related hey?

 

[sasto]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

Well the lesson to be learned is to ALWAYS have a dolly in your trunk and to act first and ask questions later Next time just send out an iboats beacon and whichever members are closest will drop what they're doing and come lend a hand. Not to worry, they'll be plenty more where those came from. Shoot, you might even get dibs on one of the new homemade subs "the Colombian navy" is fond of using nowadays. How are you feeling btw SASTO?

I think I better follow protocal from now on. I think I have been involved with just about every Sheriff in the county by now. I like your thinking though!

I'm doing great, my frien!. Thanks for asking. Well enough to hit the gym now. I've got about 10lbs to put back on.

My question on this outcome is what of the environmental impact these things cause? Fuel, oil, batteries, wire and fiberglass scraps all over the place. Guess it only matters if they are auto related hey?

Yes, bonz, That's my concern all the time......the enviroment. I had no need for an outboard, and didn't care about selling it either. I had a friend that I was giving it too. That's the way we work around here!

 

[Willyclay]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

I'm doing great, my frien!. Thanks for asking. Well enough to hit the gym now. I've got about 10lbs to put back on.

It took me a few minutes to figure out what this was all about. Shame on me for never visiting the Dockside Chat forum. Read all of member nlain's thread and am very glad you felt up to the mission you described in this thread. Take care and be safe!

 

[lncoop]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

Well, now that the outboard is buried in the sand you can forget about teleporting it. Ay caramba!:facepalm:

 

[kfa4303]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

Glad you're able to pump some iron again SASTO! I figured you must be doing better if you were even attempting to dragging the motor off the beach in the first place. Keep us posted on any other cool finds that wash ashore.

P.S.
I had to semi-winterize this week and break out some jeans and a hoodie :/ It's nice and warm in the afternoon, but cool in the mornings. Still rockin' the flip-flops as long as possible.

 

[sasto]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

Well, now that the outboard is buried in the sand you can forget about teleporting it. Ay caramba!:facepalm:

Your always good for a laugh, lncoop. Ay! Caramba.

Glad you're able to pump some iron again SASTO! I figured you must be doing better if you were even attempting to dragging the motor off the beach in the first place. Keep us posted on any other cool finds that wash ashore.

P.S.
I had to semi-winterize this week and break out some jeans and a hoodie :/ It's nice and warm in the afternoon, but cool in the mornings. Still rockin' the flip-flops as long as possible.

I found a whale washed ashore yesterday, not breathing it appeared to me. I wasn't sure what to do, so I called the authorities, and began mouth to mouth resuscitation. Then she up up and slapped the carp out of me and her husband kicked me in the groin. Going for an eye exam tomorrow!

Fall hasn't arrived here yet. Looks like next week we will get some cooler temps. My recently "move here fron WV" Brother-In-Law was helping me remove the Yahama and became overheated. He is a big strong man. Me? Not so much. I had to send him home. Of course I joked some with him later in the day. I heard it from him when I put on a jacket Saturday night. Temps in the mid 70's. :facepalm:

 

[sasto]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

It took me a few minutes to figure out what this was all about. Shame on me for never visiting the Dockside Chat forum. Read all of member nlain's thread and am very glad you felt up to the mission you decribed in this thread. Take care and be safe!

nlain brought me much happiness along with the other posts, Willyclay. The treatments went fine and nothing was overwhelming......except reading that thread daily. I will take care, and keep others safe. Me? I kinda live life on the edge these days. I have an excuse now for my actions.

 

[roscoe]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

It would seem the the logical bystander, that the FWC and the EPA representative would have had an obligation and responsibility to secure the craft to prevent personal injury and environmental damage.


Now, when they locate the owner, they will just slap him with a fine and an environmental assessment fee, and cleanup costs.

 

[sasto]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

It would seem the the logical bystander, that the FWC and the EPA representative would have had an obligation and responsibility to secure the craft to prevent personal injury and environmental damage.


Now, when they locate the owner, they will just slap him with a fine and an environmental assessment fee, and cleanup costs.

I don't think at this time the owner will be found, roscoe. It seemed pretty obvious this was a drug boat foe one. There were concrete blocks in the anchor locker, which tells me they were probably trying to ballance the load. The motor hasn't been reported stolen as of yet. It must have been an expensive load they were carying. New engine, batteries, water seperator, trim tabs and pump, gauges, bilge pumps, and steering system. Somebody put alot of money in this 12 year old boat.

 

[aspeck]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

Sorry I didn't get on this sooner ... was going to suggest you build a "coffin type" box and put the motor in it. Then carry it, pallbearer style, up the beach and to your place. Maybe even get some instruments to lead the way. It would be even better if you were in New Orleans, but I think they would understand in FL. That way there would be no questions as to what was in the box and you would have been home free! :facepalm:

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

It would seem the the logical bystander, that the FWC and the EPA representative would have had an obligation and responsibility to secure the craft to prevent personal injury and environmental damage.


Now, when they locate the owner, they will just slap him with a fine and an environmental assessment fee, and cleanup costs.

while would both be logical and beneficial, the reasons why that doesn't happen is (a) once they touch it they have responsibility and (b) the same 14 day "hands off" rule would apply. After all, while we may safely assume this boat has no owner, they have to act as if an owner might show up. That's the San Francisco case--if the true owner was on his way to rescue his boat that broke loose, he wouldn't want either some yahoo claiming it's his anhd towing it off or the LEO confiscating it too fast.

Generally it's the person who's property it's left on that has the complaint and has to start the ball rolling. Beaches belong either to a private party or city/state/fed.

It gets interesting after a hurricane/northeaster when boats are deposited in other people's yards or on the beach.

Also we see odd cases here when a boat in bad condition sinks at a marina, the owner can't or won't pay to float and remove it, no one would buy at auction, etc. and if it's not leaking oil, the authorities won't touch it. In one case, a frustrated marina owner (who also had been beat up by the boat owner) was caught putting leaking oil cans in the sunken boat so he could get USCG tp pull it out. One reason the owner couldn't afford to pull the boat out was that he was in jail for beating up the marina owner. The name of the boat? "Problem Child."

 

[sasto]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

Sorry I didn't get on this sooner ... was going to suggest you build a "coffin type" box and put the motor in it. Then carry it, pallbearer style, up the beach and to your place. Maybe even get some instruments to lead the way. It would be even better if you were in New Orleans, but I think they would understand in FL. That way there would be no questions as to what was in the box and you would have been home free! :facepalm:

Where were you when I needed you, Art. What a great idea! I may just do this with a coffin full of ruined parts that can be found with a metal detector. Then give them the proper burial.

Thanks, Home Cookin' for taking intrest in a situation like this. I may need some more imput in this after we get all the facts straight.

 

[Wind dog]

Re: How Do I Remove Outboard Off The Beach

So let me see if I have this right, "derelict boat shows up in the surf, you guys "rescue" the OB, regulations say you can't. They make you put the OB back out into the surf? Did I get that right?