How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

[kaw550]

I starting cutting out the rot.
I thought it was around the ski locker and the drivers foot area.

Well it is around the ski locker but it also extended under the drivers seat.
Once i got the floor out, I discovered the foam in that section was wet. A little later I found a puddle.

I was able to to find a stopping point at the bulkhead behind the drivers seat mount.
Along the right side I leftsome of floor but it looks like the rot may extend to the hull.
toward the stern is gets tricky. There is a bulkhead but the rot may extend past it under the base of the dash. There are a few more inches of floor but there will not be a nailing surface.

The left side looks good. I think I can just cut the floor along the center of the stringer and all the rot will be out.

Here are my questions....
How do the sides of the floor attach to the hull? Just fiberglass no stingers?
Do I assume all the floor seams need to be on a joist or bulkhead. Is that correct?
Should I also be cutting out the the solid sections of floor?
Any other suggestions????
I really dont want to cut out any of the structures on the floor (base of rear seat, dash, etc).

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

the floor is the last thing to rot. it usually is the stingers, bulkheads and transom first. then the floor. boats rot from the hull up.

your going to have to cut out all the floor, remove all the wet foam, inspect the transom and stringers, then proceed with rebuilding.

read the posts by Woodonglass, Friscoboater, and Oops.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

also start here with the sticky

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=288451

 

[jjh242]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

Hey man I started by wanting to replace a floor and a motor mount... Now inside the hull is darn near empty and I just ordered 400 dollars in resin and csm. Good luck sir.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

Might as well remove it all since you're already there, you don't want to miss any.

Your decking at the hull is supported by tabbing it to the hull with glass tape and resin, and it's also supported by the floatation foam... as a matter of fact all of your decking is supported by the foam, if the foam wasn't in there you'd have a bouncy springy deck with the 1/2" plywood... that's how they get away with using such thin plywood.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

Once water gets to the plywood parts & pieces it travels further then you think it would, and the pour in foam doesn't help. There is likely more damaged wood deeper then you think.

Jig & Scott are spot on.

Welcome to the iboats dry dock.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

Here are my questions....

How do the sides of the floor attach to the hull? Just fiberglass no stingers?

Typically yes just fiberglass. Most boats will have them floor resting on the Chine or some other radi.

Do I assume all the floor seams need to be on a joist or bulkhead. Is that correct?

Its best if they can be resting on a stringer or bulkhead. But if you have to scab in a piece of ply ..you would Cleat around the seam with plywood underside making support for the new piece.

Should I also be cutting out the the solid sections of floor?

Only if you need to replace whatever is under the deck in those areas. Stringers/bulkheads. It might be better to cut solid sections out if it makes your new piece a square/rectangle instead of a trapizoid. Better fit basically.

Any other suggestions????

As its been stated .. Look and inspect as much as you can before you repair your deck.

the floor is the last thing to rot. it usually is the stingers, bulkheads and transom first. then the floor. boats rot from the hull up.

Actually this is not totally accurate.

The wood and/or coring will rot due to water intrusion at any location .. stringers or decks or transoms.

A poor job screwing a battery box or seats will rot your deck out faster then anything seeping up from a drain hole in your stringers/bulkheads ( carpet snaps are bad bad news if they are not sealed correctly in decks ). Is a matter of fact snaps are a large contributor to failed decks and combings.

Basically if you see a screw/bolt/window or fitting they are your weak spots if not sealed correctly.

So just because you have a few soft spots on your deck does not mean you have rotted everything on the super structure. .. ..

YD.

 

[kaw550]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

I think mine rotted from the top down. It is soft wherever the skim coat of fiberglass cracked. I assume the water soeaked in but could not get out.

Last night I cut a little further forward to the next compartment. It was dry but the wood above it has some rot.

I was thinking of drilling a 1" hole in the plywood over the other bays to check for water. I would then glass back in the wooden plug.
Is this a bad idea?

Trying to decide if I should just replace what I have already cut out or keep digging.
I could get it back together with a few hours of work.

No work on the boat tonight. I left a the garage door open for a few hours and a skunk got in.
Hoping he finds his way out tonight.

 

[kaw550]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

I am bumping my own thread.
Do you think I drilling some holes into the other comparts would be sufficent for checking for water?

Replacing the floor that is out would be fairly easy. Even replacing the left side to match would be fairly easy. Taking it under the rear seat into the engine compartment turns it into a huge job.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

I would try to find as much bad decking/stringers/transom/bulkies as possible right now.

You could 1/4" drill here and there where you might think suspect of rot. .. But I think your going to find the rot is here and there. ..

Do you replace it all ? .. dunno ... Is it Structural is what you need to find out.

YD.

 

[retiredfornow]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

A handful of mothballs tossed into the garage will run ol' Pepe La Pue out real quick. Good luck on the rebuild, you're in the right place.

 

[kaw550]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

Good to know. I think it is out. I put the trash out last night and something got into it....

I am actually planning to use a hole saw to drill 1" holes and drilling into the deck. I assume with a 1" hole I can check the a couple of inches into the foam for water.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

You really need to check all the way to the hull for wet foam... You also need to be careful not to accidentally drill thru the hull :facepalm:

 

[kaw550]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

I drilled three 2" holes through the deck to check for water. The foam was wet in all three. On the right side I was back in the engine compartment.
The floor is dry without any rot but the foam was kinda juicy, like an apple.

What does this mean? Does it all have to come out?

I attached pictures of where I drilled a couple of the holes. The one upfront isn't a big deal, I can just extend where I already cut the floor out. The one in the engine compartment means the entire structure for the rear seat and engine compartment has to come out.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

These #'s are not exact to your boat they are just for reference:

Your boat was designed & built w/ dry foam weighing 2000lbs and put onto a trailer that is probably rated for carrying about that amount

The water logged foam could easily add 400lbs+ in water weight, which could be half of you're rated serviceable load capacity

So even if you only run at 1/2 capacity of gear & people, you're towing 400lb extra that the boat & trailer were not designed to transport... Not ideal

When under way, you are paying (more weight = more gas) to push an extra 400lbs around no matter what load you add in gear & people. And again, the boat was not designed or built to carry 400lbs of water weight below decks.

If the foam is wet, not slightly damp (for me there would be no difference), the below deck structure of your boat: Stringers, bulkheads, the deck (it is in contact w/ the foam somewhere even if you find the deck to be mostly dry) and the transom are all now slowly being exposed to water. Fiberglass is porous, and water will find it's way into the wood structures, travel along them & compromise additional wood as they connect to one another.

Boats are not like cars, if a problem arises while underway, you often can't just pull over & get out........

And if things go drastically wrong:

You & the crew are riding IN the hole in the water......

So, if there are now questions, again, at least for me, I would want to ensure that I did everything in my power to ensure the problem had been fully removed. That would mean totally pulling the entire deck & re-assessing the status of all structures that may have been compromised....

But that's just IMHO, and is wholly based on the limited info & pix provided, my somewhat limited experience and info learned here on iboats...

 

[riptorn]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

I agree with jbcurt00, Rip out all the foam you can and inspect. The right (starboard) side is always the worst because of hardware weight thous puddling water. I have the same problem with my 1988 sitting low on that side with a soft spot just in front of the rear seat. The floor hasn't seen water since I have owned it (over a year)and still I can feel that side is water logged. Try to get all the wet foam out because it will never dry out. The problem is trying to match the carpet to look original.

 

[kaw550]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

Well it looks like I am doing a new floor.... Hopefully I can stop there....

I am concerned with how it will look when finished. When it was just the floor I was okay with the new carpet.

Now I have to remove the structures for the rear seat and engine compartment. That has me concerned. They are covered with a thinner version of the floor carpet. I would like to keep that look.

Is there anything I shouldn't cut?
I am going to go slow so I dont cut into the hull but it is deceiving how close it is.
My biggest concerns are the dash sections and the rear seat/engine compartment.

What's step one? I am going to take measurements and pictures tonight.
Then do I start cutting?

Do I need to brace the hull if I leave the stringers and bulkheads?.

 

[kaw550]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

Right now, I have the floor cut to the back seat base. Tomorrow night I am going to cut out the front portion of the seat base and cut back the floor another 18" (Red carpet). I am sure the floor is solid but the foam is wet. To go further back is going to get complicated. The rear portion of the seat base ties into the the engine compartment. However there is a compartment on either side of the engine that has water in the foam. if you look behind the gas strut you can see the 2" hole I drilled to check for water.

Could I cut a square out of the the floor leaving 1" to 2" border, remove the foam, then reinstall the removed section?
As a disclaimer, If I found rot I would cut everything out. It may not be the cleanest solution but would there be any safety or structural risk? To me it seems like a more conservative approach.

Ideally, I would tunnel out the foam. I did dig out about 10" under the red carpet but I assume there will be another bulkhead further in.

I took Friday off to work on the boat so I am trying to get as much information as possible. Be prepared for more questions!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

Based on the limited info in this pix:

And your comments about water logged foam, I do not think you will get lucky & remove less then all of the carpet, the entire deck, all of the foam & all of the under deck structure: bulkheads, stringers & etc, and the transom. This is an I/O correct? W/ and under deck gas tank?

I prefer to accurately mark deck height at the hull, and remove all of the old deck. Others leave a small 1" lip as you suggest. Up to you.

You don't want to cut into the gas tank, or cut thru the hull. It is easier to cut slightly away from the edge, as you suggested leaving the lip, then cut, grind that lip off to eliminate it. I used a multitool:

You will likely want to build a cradle to fully support your hull. You may need to remove the cap to replace the transom, but on some I/O you can replace it w/out removing the cap. Whether you remove the cap or not, removing the deck, foam & stringers, may allow the hull to sag or distort out of shape. If you fiberglass stringers, install the deck & replace the foam, w/ a distorted hull. It may stay that way & result in the cap not fitting, or not fitting correctly...

Have an interesting journey on your day off :facepalm: Seems nuts to wish you happy demo day.... but do & take/post lots of pix

 

[kaw550]

Re: How far do I go with floor repair on my 98 baliner?

I cut out some more tonight. I found the back of the seat base is rotted. Looks like I am going further back tomorrow. I am going to try and clean it up to further inspect the stringers

So how do I determine if it is worth it the effort?
Am I better off selling it as an engine, drive and parts?
Any idea what the value is the boat as it sits (It has a 98 Mercruiser 4.3 and alpha drive)?

I keep telling myself it's just wood resin and fiberglass but it is not working...