How important is it to use "trailer tires"

[WIMUSKY]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

Please explain how you know this.

How much experience do you have with trailer tires? From your profile I see you have a 20' boat in restoration and small aluminum boat.

He's right. But from my experience, they were a 16", 10ply tire for 12000# + heavy equipment trailers. I had one that I used to tow around a tractor. I had to replace the tires and they were a truck/trailer tire. Would I put them on my truck? No. Talk about a lumber wagon.

 

[lowkee]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

Weight: 5K-6K lbs
Tire: Carlisle non-radial, non-trailer tire (came with the boat/trailer)
Inflation: At max pressure per the reading on the sidewall
Road: dry, smooth asphalt each time
Speed: approx 30 mph with the 1st, approx 50 mph with the 2nd

Nearly brand new tires with no evidence of puncture. After the 2nd explosion, I could care less what caused them to fail so I replaced all 4 with "trailer" tires and have had ZERO problems since!

Maybe there were "lemons"???

I would probably switch too, as I would think those tires were out to get me after the second blowout. I've had 6 flats on 4 tires on a car within 6 months. Switched to a different brand and didn't have one since. Sometimes you just get the result of someone (in this case a tire maker) having a bad day.

Please explain how you know this.

How much experience do you have with trailer tires? From your profile I see you have a 20' boat in restoration and small aluminum boat.

I found a reply from Goodyear last time someone asked the same question.
http://forums.iboats.com/showpost.php?p=2211537&postcount=10

Goodyear/ Dunlop's written response to me today, 15 August 02, was:

Quote:
Thank you for contacting our website. To address your concerns; a special trailer tire is not a must, the factor to consider is the load carrying capacity. If the Trailer does not overload the tire(s) then they are acceptable.

You are more than welcome to question Goodyear's experience with trailer tires. I tend to lean more towards the experts than relying on anecdotal evidence, including my own.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

Some tire makers use the same tire for truck and trailer (literally the same tire).

OK...I will ask my question again. How do you know that trailer tires and truck tires are the same tire? Which tire makers are these?

 

[lowkee]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

OK...I will ask my question again. How do you know that trailer tires and truck tires are the same tire? Which tire makers are these?

Hey bub, I'm not your wife. You want to be rude, you figure it out.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

You are telling people what you say are facts when they are in fact not. We are talking about a topic that involves peoples safety and making up a statement that trailer tires and truck tires are exactly the same is just irresponsible.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

Here goes. Hope this helps.

The following 3 examples are all the same size and load range: LT 235/85R16 Load Range "E". That tells me you can use the same tire on all 3 applications. Truck, boat trailer and equipment trailer.


Shoreland'r 15000# boat trailer(have to click "specs"):

http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/t_specs.aspx?type=&productID=2390


Firestone Transforce HT, Light Truck Tire

http://www.firestonetire.com/tireselector/SizeSpecs_FS_EN.aspx?Product_ID=1097


Load Warrior Heavy Equipment Trailer 10.5 ton

http://www.johnsontrailerco.com/10_ton_gooseneck_pintle.php

 

[lowkee]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

Deleted

 

[bruceb58]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

Can't prevent ignorance

Precisely my point!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

Hi all, i have a boat trailer that is in need of new tires. I wanted to know how important or necessary is it to use " trailer tires" verses regular passanger or truck tires. Please help me. Thanks

Back to the OP, what size tires do you need for your trailer?

 

[MRS]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

lowkee, I sent you a pm......

 

[freddyray21]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

I use passenger car tires for one of my trailers, but they are load rated for the weight I use and I don't tow it far. I think if I were putting a lot of miles on them I would pay the extra money and get the trailer tires as I find they do have a stiffer sidewall. Truck tires also have a stiffer sidewall simply for load ratings, but the trailer I would use them on I can't get truck tires in that size. If I could buy a load rated truck tire that size cheaper than a trailer tire I would not have a problem buying or using them. I think where people get into trouble is they buy passenger car tires that don't have a proper load rating.

 

[The_Kid]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

Weight: 5K-6K lbs
Tire: Carlisle non-radial, non-trailer tire (came with the boat/trailer)
Inflation: At max pressure per the reading on the sidewall
Road: dry, smooth asphalt each time
Speed: approx 30 mph with the 1st, approx 50 mph with the 2nd

Nearly brand new tires with no evidence of puncture. After the 2nd explosion, I could care less what caused them to fail so I replaced all 4 with "trailer" tires and have had ZERO problems since!

Maybe there were "lemons"???

If they were Carlisle tires they were trailer tires. Carlisle does not make car or truck tires. http://www.carlisletire.com/

 

[dingbat]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

If you can not use P or LT series tires on a trailer for safety reasons, why is it that Goodyear gives load ratings for P and LT series tires when used in trailer application?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

Can you post a link to where this table exists on the Goodyear site? Current charts that I found do not include those sizes.

Also, this is what Goodyear says about trailer tires.

"In addition, that is why we recommend using trailer designed or trailer specific tires in trailer towable applications."

http://www.goodyear.com/rv/faq/technical.html

Interesting to note for the chart posted by Dingbat that if you needed the largest size of 14" tire for a tandem trailer, you would lose close to 1000# of carrying capacity vs the equivalent sized trailer tire.

 

[Big Pete]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

Ok Guys

I have been Manufacturing Tyres for some 30+ years , so do feel somewhat knowledgable on Tyres..

Now you have several factors to choosing and using Tyres for trailer or Passenger applications .

1 is the load ie; the weight the tyre is going to carry . known as Load Carrying Capacity .

2. is the speed the tyre has been drum tested at its designed maximum load carrying capacity..

They are the 2 main parameters that any Tyre Manufacture needs and does address and gives this info on the sidewall of each tyre ..ie. on trucks in Europe they are marked 152/150 k and the suchlike . this equates as.
152= maximum load in single fitment ie; steer axle
150= maximum load in dual fitment ie; Twinned rear drives on trucks etc.
k = speed rating tested at at the above weight ie; k = 66mph

remember this is Europe truck specs i believe USA has its own markings..

So they go ahead and produce what they call the carcass ie; a steel wired rubber coated pressure vessel that would basically withstand the loads required at the planned speeds.

NOW Comes the compromise bit every manufacturer needs to face .

a; Legal requirement for the roads , NO tyre can be a slick etc etc ..
b; Its ability to disperse water for wet driving without having tread chunking etc, etc.
c; The tread can sustain none stop full load without break down of tread blocks, or severe over heat from excessive tread depths etc, etc..

NEXT Comes what is the Tyre to be used for and what differences does it make ?

1; Passenger car normal tarmac roads
2; Passenger 4x4 with on and off road
3; Trailer which can suffer overload but generally is what is classed a Free Rolling Tyre. (ie none powered driven )


So now you can start to see the fundamental compromises EVERY manufacture faces ?

1; The Passenger tyre this needs to brake in the wet dry at high or low speeds hence has a tread design which has GRIP..
2; The Passenger 4x4 tyre as well as meeting above needs Extra deep GRIP for rough terrain along with tougher sidewalls to put up with harsher operating conditions.
3; The Trailer tyre which NEEDS to retain straight line stability , allow for MORE sideways scrub as tandem trailers can suffer sideways drag when being turned tightly etc, also needs still to retain rigidity and disperse water .

PROBLEMS FOR TRAILERS !!

Now on the face of it and indeed LEGALLY at present so long as the Tyre selected is Free from cuts and tears exposing the Body and is of the correct Size and LOAD and Speed Capacity then it can be used on a Trailer ..

But lets add something else in the equation which often gets overlooked ..

On a trailer with the correct load carrying Tyre fitted to each side of the Trailer . The Tyre can so easily be overloaded when the trailer leans on a bend and the load is shifted from being equally split to one side or other etc ..
The Boat can also be far heavier when loaded with stuff for that long weekend fishing trips, and a full tank of fuel etc etc..that up to as much as 20% overload is regularly achieved ..

So what can you derive from this UK Big Pete post speeling on and on ?

SUMMARY and my own opinion !!

Well if you have a small lightweight dinghy and your only running a mile or 2 to your favourite water, then a standard budget Car tyre will be fine ..

BUT if you have a good sized boat and trailer , and you want the tyre to last and NOT blow out always select a Good Trailer Tyre and try if possible to go for a HIGHER load carrying Capacity than you need and not oh well that will just about do it..

After all you wouldn`t run your boat at Full throttle every day would you ?

Also a Tyre`s sidewall has NO relevance to its carrying capacity it is the Steel wires inside the rubber which determines its strength . the best Tyres in the world are Michelin and they have the thinnest rubber thicknesses

The biggest enemy of any Tyre is heat , Heat is generated by under pressures and or overloading !!!! so keep the tyre pressures right ..


Hope this helps on the issue

 

[dingbat]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

The same information is outlined in the Federal NHTSA Tire selections. Someone needs to set the Feds straight and get them to retract these silly use can use P-Serie tires on trailer ideas. Perhaps the local trailer tire salesmen could follow-up?

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/octqtr/49cfr571.110.htm

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 49, Volume 5]
[Revised as of October 1, 2004]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
{quote][CITE: 49CFR571.110]

[Page 323-333]

TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER V--NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC
SAFETY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT
OF TRANSPORTATION

PART 571_FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS--Table of Contents

Subpart B_Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards

Sec. 571.110 Standard No. 110; Tire selection and rims.

S4.2.1 Tire load limits for passenger cars.
S4.2.1.1 The vehicle maximum load on the tire shall not be greater
than the applicable maximum load rating as marked on the sidewall of the
tire.

S4.2.1.2 The vehicle normal load on the tire shall not be greater
than 94 percent of the load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's
recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.

S4.2.2 Tire load limits for multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks,
buses, and trailers.

S4.2.2.1 Except as provided in S4.2.2.2, the sum of the maximum load
ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the GAWR
of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label
required by 49 CFR part 567. If the certification label shows more than
one GAWR for the axle system, the sum shall be not less than the GAWR
corresponding to the size designation of the tires fitted to the axle.

S4.2.2.2 When passenger car (P-metric) tires are installed on an
MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating is reduced by
dividing it by 1.10 before determining, under S4.2.2.1, the sum of the
maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle.

S4.2.2.3 (a) For vehicles equipped with P-metric tires, the vehicle
normal load on the tire shall be no greater than the value of 94 percent
of the derated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended
cold inflation pressure for that tire.
(b) For vehicles equipped with LT tires, the vehicle normal load on
the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the load rating at the
vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that
tire.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/UpgradeTire/Econ/TireUpgradeI.html

Current Tire Standards - FMVSS No. 109/110/117/119/120/129

The present tire standards: FMVSS No. 109; New pneumatic tires, FMVSS No. 110; Tire selection and rims; FMVSS No. 119; New pneumatic tires for vehicles other than passenger cars; and FMVSS No. 120; Tire selection and rims for vehicles other than passenger cars, were established over thirty years ago before radial tires were introduced into the market, and have remained virtually unchanged.

FMVSS No. 109, New Pneumatic Tires - Passenger Cars, 49 CFR 571.109, specifies the requirements for all tires manufactured for use on passenger cars manufactured after 1948. This standard, which was issued in 1967 under the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Safety Act), specifies dimensions for tires used on passenger cars and requires that the tires meet specified strength, resistance to bead unseating, endurance, and high speed requirements, and be labeled with certain safety information. FMVSS No. 109 applies to passenger car (P-metric) tires produced for use on passenger cars, light trucks, and multipurpose passenger vehicles (MPVs), including sport utility vehicles (SUVs). The standard was adopted in January 1968 from the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) recommended practice J918c, Passenger Car Tire Performance Requirements and Test Procedures, which was first issued by the SAE in June 1965.

The current FMVSS No. 109 includes four performance requirements for tires: a strength test that evaluates resistance to puncture in the tread area, a resistance to bead unseating test that evaluates how well the tire bead is seated on the rim, an endurance test that evaluates resistance to heat buildup when the tire is run at 85%, 90%, and 100% of its rated load nonstop for a total of 34 hours in an under-inflated condition, and a high speed test that evaluates resistance to heat buildup when the tire is run at 88% of its maximum load at speeds of 75 miles per hour (mph), 80 mph, and 85 mph for 30 minutes at each speed. The FMVSS No. 109 performance requirements are discussed further in Chapter II.

For the purposes of testing tires to determine their compliance with these standards, several variable factors such as the tire's inflation pressure, the load on the tire, and the rim on the tire on which a tire is mounted, must be specified. The agency specifies a limited number of permissible inflation pressures (or wheel sizes, in the case of the bead unseating test) to facilitate testing. The standard requires that each passenger car must have a maximum permissible inflation pressure labeled on its sidewall (S4.3). Section 4.2.1(b) lists the permissible maximum pressures: 32, 36, 40, or 60 pounds per square inch (psi) or 240, 280, 290, 300, 340, 350, or 390 kiloPascals (kPa). A manufacturer's selection of a maximum pressure has the effect of determining the pressures at which its tire is tested. For each permissible maximum pressure, Table II of the standard specifies pressures at which the standard's tests must be conducted. The intent of this provision is to limit the number of possible maximum inflation pressures and thereby reduce the likelihood of having tires of the same size on the same vehicle with one maximum load value but with different maximum permissible inflation pressures.

Closely related to FMVSS No. 109 is FMVSS No. 110, Tire Selection and Rims - Passenger Cars, 49 CFR 571.110, which requires that each passenger car be equipped with tires that comply with FMVSS No. 109, that tires on all cars be capable of carrying the load of that vehicle, that the rims on the car be appropriate for use with the tires, and that certain information about the car and its tires appear on a placard in the passenger car. FMVSS No. 110 also establishes rim dimension requirements and further specifies that in the event of a sudden loss of inflation pressure at a speed of 60 miles per hour, rims must retain a deflated tire until the vehicle can be stopped with a controlled braking application. FMVSS No. 110 initially became effective in April 1968.


FMVSS No. 119, New pneumatic tires for vehicles other than passenger cars, 49 CFR 571.119, specifies performance and labeling requirements for new pneumatic tires designed for highway use on multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, buses, trailers and motorcycles manufactured after 1948. Under this standard, each tire has to meet requirements that are qualitatively similar to those in FMVSS No. 109 for passenger car tires. The high speed performance test in this standard only applies to motorcycle tires and to non-speed-restricted tires of 14.5-inch nominal rim diameter or less marked load range A, B, C, or D. But, FMVSS No. 119 does not contain a resistance to bead unseating test. The FMVSS No. 119 performance requirements are discussed further in Chapter II.

A tire under this standard is generally required to meet the performance requirements when mounted on any rim listed as suitable for its size designation, at the time of the tire's manufacture, as specified by the tire and rim associations publications that are listed in the standard. Further, the tire is required to meet the dimensional requirements when mounted on any such rim of the width listed in the load-inflation tables of this standard. In addition to the permanent marking for any non-matching listed rims, each tire manufacturer is required to attach to the tire, for the information of distributors, dealers and users, a label listing the designations of rims appropriate for use with the tire. FMVSS No. 119 initially became effective in September 1974.

FMVSS No. 120, Tire Selection and rims for motor vehicles other than passenger cars, 49 CFR 571.120, requires that vehicles other than passenger cars equipped with pneumatic tires be equipped with rims that are listed by the tire manufacturer as suitable for use with those tires, and that rims be labeled with certain information and establishes that these vehicles shall be equipped with tires and rims that are adequate to support the fully-loaded vehicle.

FMVSS No. 120 was promulgated January 19, 1976 (41 FR 3478, January 26, 1976), and became effective in August 1976. The primary effect of Standard No. 120 is fulfillment of ' 202 of the Act by specification of the minimum load-carrying characteristics of tires not already subject to the passenger car tire and rim selection requirements of FMVSS No. 110. The rim selection requirements were limited to the use of a rim designated as suitable by the tire manufacturer for use with its product. The use of "DOT" labeled rims was required on and after September 1, 1979.

Tire selection under FMVSS No. 120 consists of two elements. With one exception, each vehicle must be equipped with tires that comply with FMVSS No. 119 and the combined load ratings of those tires on each axle of the vehicle must at least equal the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) for that axle. If the certification label lists more than one GAWR-tire combination for the axle, the sum of the tires' maximum load ratings must meet or exceed the GAWR that corresponds to the tires' size designation. If more than one combination is listed, but the size designation of the actual tires on the vehicle is not among those listed, then the sum of the load ratings must meet or exceed the lowest GAWR that does appear.

FMVSS No. 120 also contains a requirement related to the use of passenger car tires on vehicles other than passenger cars. The requirement states that when a passenger car tire is installed on a multipurpose passenger vehicle, truck, bus, or trailer, the tire's load rating must be reduced by a factor of 1.10, i.e., by dividing by 1.10 before determining whether the tires on an axle are adequate for the GAWR. This 10 percent de-rating of P-metric tires provides a greater load reserve when these tires are installed on vehicles other than passenger cars. The reduction in the load rating is intended to provide a safety margin for the generally harsher treatment, such as heavier loading and possible off-road use, that passenger car tires receive when installed on a MPV, truck, bus or trailer instead of on a passenger car.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: How important is it to use "trailer tires"

Hi all, i have a boat trailer that is in need of new tires. I wanted to know how important or necessary is it to use " trailer tires" verses regular passanger or truck tires. Please help me. Thanks

Just my thoughts but......
A trailer tire should be fitted to trailer wheels.
A car tire should be fitted to car wheels.
A bicycle tire should be fitted to bicycle wheels.
A wheelbarrow tire should be fitted to a wheelbarrow wheel.
And the list goes on.